"PEOPLE who sell more than three litters of puppies or kittens a year will be subject to the same licensing regime as pet shops, under government moves to curb back-street breeders. The government is to update animal welfare laws to include people who breed cats and dogs at home and sell them online. The move is aimed at puppy farmers who breed thousands of dogs in appalling conditions and often remove pups from their mother before they are properly weaned. Breeders selling more than three litters a year will face fines or imprisonment if they breach the terms of their licence.

Sunday Times Article - HERE

Bit daft as the law already requires people who breed more than 4 litters to be licensed, and I assumed anyone SELLING puppies not bred by themselves would have needed a license to trade as a pet shop?

It should be for any litter bred.  Three litters per household is still a heck of a lot of litters when you consider how many people are breeding their pets now - my local FB groups are full of kittens and bull breed crosses at the moment, an endless stream of them.

I would still like to see a licence for everyone who wants to breed any litters at all, and free advertising not allowed.  I'd like to see a licence for every litter, to be honest.  Make it too much effort for the greeders to bother - those who are doing it for the right reasons I would hope wouldn't be fazed by the process as they already put a lot of work into producing a quality litter.

I'll disagree, problem is if you get into licencing then a one size fits all attitude will prevail.

One reason I left the KC ABS was exactly this.

Good breeders who breed a litter or two a year with utmost care don't need any more red tape to put them of doing so.

I know it would probably stop me breeding, I don't hold with annual vaccinations, vaccinating pups before they are 10 weeks, etc.

I don't have purpose built kennels, Insurance etc

Many of us do our best with homely adhoc facilities and pretty much on a shoe string, and prefer to pump all our resources into our dogs not into the pockets of Local authorities.

I have rarely bred more than one litter a year, but have on occasion bred two, all deepening on the timings of the dogs, and the needs of my breeding program.  Bitches miss then come in season together, late early, available stud dogs and bitches ages all can determine if and when you will breed.  then it all needs fitting around family events, shows etc, not to mention puppy waiting lists.

These rules/laws when passed, well meaning as they are rarely effective against the intended people and cause a lot of needless hassle for those who should be encouraged to breed.

How many LA staff have a clue about good breeding practice and how varied it can be based on individual dogs breeds and peoples needs and facilities.

Bit daft as the law already requires people who breed more than 4 litters to be licensed

As it mentions kittens as well, presumably that could mean 3 litters of kittens and one of puppies a year (not read the article yet).

Facebook Reply:

Caroline Beresford says: How can they police this? Unless the puppies are KC registered they won't know who's where doing what? They're going to have to trawl the Pet Ad's to find these people which will cost time and money? It's a massive undertaking and I only wish it would work effectively.

There are some areas of the county where licensing for any breeding has come in , county Durham being one I believe. There a number of hoops to jump through before being allowed to go ahead. How exactly it is being policed I have no idea though

I assume its because the RSPCA are after a puppy selling licences for anyone selling a puppy! At least the government is being more reasonable with a 3 litter limit.

Facebook Replies:

Christine Batey says: ..exactly...it will be impossible to police and will take more than that to stop the puppy farmers...

Mark Lynch Any new law to stop it is a step in the right direction

Allen Greer says: About time they tried something

Jane Jordan says: Excellent idea x

Mark Gibbs says: What's a back street breeder?

Michelle Shamrotts says: 3 litters is still too many imo !!!

Sue Kiddy says: And who exactly is going to enforce this? Docking still goes on illegally and no-one in authority gives a shit, they just pass the buck

Diana Madge says: I think that it is a good move in the right direction. Especially as we have spent years complaining that nothing is ever done about puppy farmers. If you know a puppy farmer the authorities have to do something if you report them now.

Penny Laverick says: this has been in force for a while but was any more than two bitches in a household you need a breeders licence and all that comes with it (such as an isolation area) and is enforced by the local council - report the puppy farms if you suspect

Sue Parr says: Step in the right direction. However, I can't see why people would need/want more than one litter a year, can only be for financial gain. .... I'm of the school I would only have a litter if I wanted to keep a puppy

Michelle Shamrotts says: Here here, im planning a litter n my last was 7 years ago where i kept 2 n this time i will b lookin 2 keep 2 n i show mine but still dont feel the need 2 pump out litters, theres just no need 2 keep breeding, how do folk think back yard breeders actually started out ? from those who breed n breed n sell then they breed but dont register so pups go into any tom, dick n harrys hand n they breed caus ther bitch is sweet or ther dog is handsome n the cycle jus repeats itself....then u end up wiv loads in rescue....simples!!

Jane Conlon says: People can still get good prices for non KC Reg "purebreds" This will simply push them underground I think

Rudi Norma Stevenson says: Not before time

impossible to police and will push breeding underground.i think a ban on staffordshire bull terriers and their crosses across the board would be a better option than to pick on responsible hobby breeders.ban all pet selling sites on social networks and make sellers pay fees for advertising on popular internet sites.

Then where would people look for puppies advertised.

The problem already is that people don't know where to look for a well bred puppy, and many good breeders don't like to advertise outside the narrow area of breed club or Kennel club.

If people saw there was a better choice the poor quality breeders would have to up their game or quit, but of course the public would have to realise to some extent they have to expect to pay for quality.

As for paying for advertising in numerically small b4reeds like my own no-one would advertise as adverts yield very few inquiries over a short period, puppies are few and far between but so are puppy enquiries.

Few of my breed are actually advertised beyond KC list as mostly breeders work off waiting lists from breed club or breeder website referrals.

So actually the puppy selling sites ought to have breed clubs advertised, and good breeders adds stressing the difference between their pups and the run of the mill, (health test results, experienced breeders of typical stock etc

> Sue Parr says: Step in the right direction. However, I can't see why people would need/want more than one litter a year, can only be for financial gain. .... I'm of the school I would only have a litter if I wanted to keep a puppy<br />

So easy to say Sue Parr.  I have a breed that has 1-3 pups in a litter.  When I had a bitch with one dead pup I missed out on a show baby.  Next litter was 2 boys and I just couldn't keep any more males.  3rd litter was one puppy, alive I'm pleased to say, and a bitch but she turned out to be far too small for the show ring.  The KC had changed the weight in the breed standard.

So I shouldn't be allowed to breed eh?  I wish that folk wouldn't generalise. 

So you're "of the school that only has a litter if a show pup is required."  And what the hell school am I then?  According to you I do it for financial gain.  I give up.

i think a ban on staffordshire bull terriers and their crosses across the board would be a better option

Yeah and that would work as well as the ban on breeding Pit bulls did......................................apart from the fact that Staffs from GOOD breeders are not the problem

> apart from the fact that Staffs from GOOD breeders are not the problem

and their registrations are down, which is so sad, more and more badly bred dogs and fewer and fewer well bred ones, with good breeders only breeding the minimum they feel their breeding program can support.

The public need educating to only buy puppies from good breeders and to stop buying on price alone.

I have a litter advertised at the moment and I've lost count of how many 'have you got any puppies left and how much are they?' queries I've had.
One person only wanted to pay a third of the price and another asked if I'd negotiate on the price.
Very few people have asked about health tests and some that have don't really know what the tests are for.

My pups are only advertised due to people dropping off my waiting list and they're only on KC and Champdogs.

Education is the way forward rather than introducing a system that's impossible to police and a system that byb's and puppy farmers will just ignore.

> another asked if I'd negotiate on the price

I find it really offensive when someone does that, and say quite firmly the price is the price, which is decided on the basis of what is the norm and my increasing rearing costs, especially cost of health tests, registration and ID costs.

My breed which one could call truly rare in UK (averaging only around 50 registrations a year in last decade), is only averagely priced at around £750.

Why pick on staffs to ban we already ban enough breeds and get it wrong so many innocent dogs are killed .its not the breed that's the problem it's how they are bred and bought up as with any breed  staffs well bred are wonderful dogs .In this area northern breeds are problem perhaps w should ban them and add to the list

> staffs well bred are wonderful dogs

They most certainly are.  I'm horrified that anyone would want to have them banned.

Charlie Brown - I had even better, a phone call saying "Have you got any puppies to get rid of!" 

Never got rid any time ever.  I would rather keep a litter than let pups go to total idiots.

Agreed JeanSW.

Get Rid......disgusting way to enquire!!

I wouldn't ever reduce the price of a puppy or let them anywhere near my puppies on a query like that, that's for sure.......

I had visitors at the weekend, 3 children bouncing around on my furniture, ended up pulling each other about....No way were they having one of my pups either! They sounded so nice too before they arrived, they asked all the right questions so thought they were potentially very good prospective puppy owners.
Then they arrived!

'Get rid of'  What a cheek ! 

My hackles are raised when I get enquiries that express the desire to 'adopt' a puppy. Rightly or not, this leads me to believe that they expect a free puppy.  I respond with a long email detailing the work that goes into breeding a healthy litter,mentioning the costs of health screening , what the prospective puppy buyer should expect from a good breeder etc etc.
Nine times out of ten, I never get a reply.

I've told this story many times -one lady visiting my litter turned up with a playgroup. I had several 2-4 year olds rampaging around my house and garden. The dogs thought it was great -much more fun than boring old me.  Somehow a huge rocking horse was shoved over a dog gate. It was pandemonium.

I agree Jean - I have to keep my numbers low to keep the OH happy (and no, I'm not trading him in!) So my hope is to breed a little when the bitch is about 3 or 4, sell them, then breed again when they are 5 or 6 and keep one that time. Of course it does mean the risk that I won't get what I want in that 2nd litter and the whole plan falls apart, but that's the risk I take!