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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Changed - 9 months and grieving?
- By debbo198 [eu] Date 30.11.15 22:13 UTC
Hi. Any and all help (& any reassurance) will be gratefully received.
Sorry if I'm unclear and rambling.
I had to pts my Heidi 9 yr Elkhound 13th this month. I've also a 9 month JRT X. He is who I need help with.

I believe that pups go through a 2nd fear stage around this age. Also, he is missing Heidi, and will also sense my emotions.
Understandably he wants more of my attention as he misses play, cuddles and her presence. I am playing and training more but he has started barking for attention.  He barks at the TV, the back door (even when he doesn't want to go out) his reflection ... He'd not been a barky dog but I'm having trouble stopping him.  I think it's all attention seeking/insecurity.  I think that ignoring the barking may be the best way but he has twice pooped in the house (during excited play) which he's not done for months too, so it's difficult to tell whether he's asking to go out or not , though he's sounding more excited than wanting.  He's pretty clever and susses out what will get a response from me. 
I don't scold for any of these behaviours though I do (& have always) say shush when barking out the window.  I often use distractions - like playing tug or sit/ come but he is a clever soandso and seems to be trying to train me.
I'm not really sure if I'm going in the right direction with him.
- By Admin (Administrator) Date 02.12.15 09:32 UTC
Can anyone help?
- By saxonjus Date 02.12.15 10:59 UTC
I'm really sorry to hear of your loss. Have you noticed any changes with his walks? Do you go with anyone else with a dog for a walk? Possibly joining a training class again with your dog will re establish commands and give him one to one attention/focus with you. It will also help socialise him again with other dogs.
I'm sure more experienced members will pop along with other ideas/tips. My best wishes for you both.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 02.12.15 11:09 UTC
First of all I'm sorry for your loss - 9 isn't any age although it might be 'the norm' for Elkhounds?   Anyhow, over the years with our lot, we obviously had comings and goings and really the only one I noticed any reaction from them over was one little bitch we'd kept after very early on she had to have an eye removed (abscess right in the back which we didn't know about until it 'blew' and the eyeball had to be removed - nasty).   I'd never shown her (obviously) nor taken a litter from her.  She was just 'there'.   Clearly she was a force within the pack as after she went, nobody moved onto her place in front of the fire, for quite some weeks.   It was as if her presence was still there.    Otherwise as one went, another one, or two, was born to fill the gap.    It was quite different when, down to the final two of our bloodline, brother and sister, we lost the sister.  Obviously finding himself as the sole hound when he's always had others around was bad enough, but he was extremely close to his sister and as a result was devastated to the point he started challenging any strange dog who approached when out on walks.   Hackles up, low rumbling and totally untypical for the Basset and him.   Obviously he'd been used to standing back and letting the others sort out any problems but finding himself quite alone, was more than he was able to deal with.    Seeing this, and actually not liking only having one hound ourselves, we set about finding him a buddy.   That took 4 months, booking to arrival with us by which time he had pretty much settled down.   We had to take him everywhere we could with us, but if he couldn't come along, basically we didn't go!

Clearly your Jackie X will be picking up your vibes so try to keep his schedule as close to normal as you can in that.   Jackies are intelligent little people, but can be noisy.   He is into puberty and losing his companion at this time could be a double whammy for him.   I sympathise re yapping because my Whippet (yes, we switched breeds after losing our second last although it wasn't totally successful and we now have another Basset!) does the same.  I'm not used to yapping dogs but I've tried all I know to shut her down - she's now 7 - to no avail really.     With 'asking to go out', I have never waited to be asked.   I dictate when there is a need to empty - based on them being on a regular schedule (feeding).   So in that, I'd not wait.   If you know how he is, when he 'goes' (BM), get him out.

And depending on how you/your family feels right now, perhaps starting a project for a new companion for him might be worth considering.  Dogs do grieve, but some more than others.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.12.15 20:36 UTC

> 9 isn't any age although it might be 'the norm' for Elkhounds?


Nope average 13 and 15+ not uncommon, anything under 12 is uncommon.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 03.12.15 19:24 UTC
Thank you  Saxonjus and Mamabas for your replies - and condolences. 

Brainless is absolutely right 9 years is nothing at all for an Elkhound - it was an extremely unfortunate, unexpected, unforeseen, rare, inoperable, ovarian tumours and metastases - other than that she'd been extremely healthy and I'd fully expected her to live well into her teens.  In fact, since getting the pup in April, changing her to raw feeding and giving her turmeric etc, she'd really bucked up. It was Nov last year they were discovered; the vet said it could be 6 weeks/months/years, so as she'd done the first 2, and with the improvements in her health and activity I fully expected her to go on for years. 

Saxonjus - I like your ideas re more socialising - I'm not keen on 'ordinary' classes and he's too young yet for agility and such but I will definitely make more effort to walk with other dogs, though it's a bit difficult with these dark nights; my friends work and spend time with their families at weekends.I live alone with few visitors so definitely need to go out more seeking social opportunities for my pup.  x

Mamabas - your poor little one's eye sounded terrible.  Your experience with your boy being left as the only one is really helpful and incredibly similar to Pip's reactions.  Fortunately I am currently unemployed (took voluntary redundancy 2 months ago) and don't expect to work for about a year, by which time I will only need to work part-time, so, your suggestion of finding a pal seems a good idea.  This is even more so as I had already planned to get another in the next few months - though was expecting/hoping it would be a third.... with my Heidi continuing  to  be a role model/nanny - and my best friend.  I am in two minds about this though: if I'm right about the fear stage would this impair a new pup's development or, alternatively, would having a new pup now fit in with the socialisation I need to re-enforce with current pup? x

Thanks again
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 03.12.15 19:52 UTC Upvotes 1
Forgot to say - He's not pooped in the house since - touch wood - (though still does 'dire rear' in the car, but that's an ongoing problem, he now travels in a crate with puppy pads in so he doesn't get messed up - interestingly Heidi used to get car sick)  He's also reacting less at the postpeople, binmen & other regular stuff, ie responding to my "It's OK, thank you; it's only the .. whatever"
- By monkeyj [gb] Date 05.12.15 19:54 UTC Edited 05.12.15 19:58 UTC
I feel for you the barking is such a difficult behaviour to stop.. One of my two terriers is a barker, she is also a bit insecure at times but at the same time quite bossy in character (dominant over the other dog, and outside ), and is excitable. She is now almost 20 months old, so past puppy stage but still barking - at loud, sudden or unusual noises, postman, cats, lawn mover, to express her annoyance, at people behind the fence in the neighbouring garden, motorcyclists following our car, crying babies on TV....... the list could go on and on.

The difficult part is that every time there is "a" reason to bark, but I have no idea how to teach her that those reasons are not good ones. She does get told off for barking (or rather for failing to stop when asked nicely), but it only works on the occasion - i.e. it does not change her into an overall quiet dog...
- By debbo198 [eu] Date 05.12.15 20:56 UTC Upvotes 1
Thanks for taking the time to reply. 
My Heidi's breed are known for barking and it took a while, not 100% successful, to teach her what at, when and how much to bark.  Very difficult as we have had a lot of trouble with kids/youths damaging the fences etc. I successfully used saying "thank you, it's only the postman'/binman/next door etc" in a very calm voice and rewarding when quiet. 
My pup has only started this excessive barking and attention seeking since she's been gone.  She was a good role model and took some of the pressure off me to be 'on his case'  or aware of what he's up to, all the time.
I suppose, having now written this, I know what I have to do - stay calm and consistent.  So hard after losing my friend. So hard for pup...
- By tatty-ead [gb] Date 05.12.15 22:07 UTC
So sorry for your loss............

Maybe of slight relevance........... Daughter got a Rott pup when we had other 2 resident dogs, a xbreed (wimpy) age 9, and a GSD age 6, once she got to about 7-8 months she never barked at the door unless the other 2 were out, We decided she got the idea that you don't keep a dog and bark yourself.
Maybe pup didn't need to let you know if Heidi was already doing it but has now taken over the job and just needs to learn the rules for when and how often.
- By debbo198 [eu] Date 05.12.15 22:21 UTC Upvotes 1
Thank you Tattyhead That makes total sense.  He's trying to step up and isn't big or  wise enough  to wear her shoes, so to speak.
Thanks for your condolences, too. X
- By debbo198 [eu] Date 10.12.15 20:06 UTC Upvotes 1
Just a little update.  There's been a good improvement in Pip. I really thought about all your suggestions.
I mostly stick to regular going out times and am re-learning that I have to say what is worrying enough to continue barking at.  I'm emphasising the 'It's OK it's only the....'.
Re barking at the TV -  I resorted to short time-outs. I still have a baby gate up between kitchen and lounge (it kept them separate, but in sight, when feeding raw bones) so it wasn't too tough for him as he could still see me.  This has worked a treat, so far, with the added benefit that I can now send him to the kitchen and he'll lie down and wait (for a minute or two) till I ask him back!

It's obviously a work in progress but it's progressing in the right direction, so far.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 11.12.15 21:05 UTC

> It's obviously a work in progress but it's progressing in the right direction, so far.


Excellent, once you have him sorted you can consider getting him another (Elkhound) companion :wink:
- By debbo198 [eu] Date 12.12.15 14:32 UTC
Lol Barbara - stop tempting me - it's bad enough seeing all those puppy pictures!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 12.12.15 19:33 UTC
:twisted: you know you want to, get back on the wild side..
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Changed - 9 months and grieving?

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