Hi all,

The pups were three weeks old yesterday and we have started to think about feeding solids. As of now they are semi- mobile but still very clumsy. Mum is still feeding them (if a little sick of it now) and they are all still putting weight on nicely. Is now the right time to introduce a small meal once a day? If so, what are your ideas? The mum is still on puppy food as her weight has dropped quite a bit since giving birth. We were thinking of trying some biscuits soaked in puppy milk as mush.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas in advance.

Also, I know it's massively off topic, but the puppies are on panacur wormer - we wormed at 2 weeks for 3 days and plan to again at 5 and 8 weeks. How have others done their first vaccination around this as don't want to over - do it!

I started weaning at 2 weeks once eyes were opened and started with one meal and increased it but allowed them to feed off mum whenever they wanted to.
As for vaccinations that's a contentious subject as some start at 8 weeks and others 10 weeks plus.
I wouldn't if they are going at 8 weeks vaccinate, if they are staying longer then it's up to you at what age you want to start. I had 2 stay longer with me and I vaccinated them with the one I kept at 8 and 10 weeks.
Some vets don't hold the same vaccines as what you could be using so either they would have to see if their vet would get them in or find another vet who does stock them to carry the programme on. Much easier for owners to arrange themselves if possible

Thanks, Sue.

Did you start with puppy biscuits mushed with milk or something else? I'm going to give it a go today although I suspect there will just be lots of rolling around and food everywhere!

I start to wean at approx three week and use warm nature diet to get them started and introduce soaked mash kibble by five weeks
I worm with panacur on same routine. I take each pup out one by one and offer a small meat ball by hand for first bit of food, they learn the smell and next time offer a saucer each and then we are usually happy to eat from a dish at first offer. They will however walk in it and plaster it over each other for sure :) 

Due to effect of maternal antibodies I don't think about first vaccine until minimum 12 - 14 weeks and follow WSAVA guidelines for vaccinations
http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/New%20Puppy%20Owner%20Vaccination%20Guidelines%20Updated%20July%2029%202013.pdf

I usually start with puppy milk in a shallow dish to see if the pups manage to lap it up, this is done one puppy at a time.  Then the next day offer a ball of raw mince. The day after that - puppy food made up with cooled boiled water prepared to a mushy texture.  Messy but fun!

Depending on how the litter is doing, we'd start the weaning process by the end of week 3, going into week 4.   And using warmed goats milk - teaching each individual puppy about lapping.   We'd do this 3 - 4 times a day with most of their nourishment still coming from mum at first.   Once lapping was managed (some were better at this than others ) we added a good quality puppy food, with either goats milk, or just water, and mixed into a porridge.   4 times a day.   Mum wouldn't be in with them while feeding, but let in afterwards to clean up, and allow 'comfort suckling'.   Once she felt their sharp teeth, it was out please - fast.

We have never used puppy food for our bitches.   I don't know when this started, but basically puppy food is for PUPPIES - provided mum is on a good quality adult food, and enough of it, even if they might lose a bit of condition by the end of nursing, they quickly regained their ideal weight, without the need for puppy food.   I'd add some scrambled egg, cottage cheese and perhaps chicken to the food, if needed.   But that was all.

Our litters were always wormed at week 2 and every 2 weeks to the time they went home.   And mum, having been wormed before being mated, was wormed again when the puppies were first wormed, at 2 weeks.

Vaccination, the first shot, was given at 10 weeks.

Thanks for your advice guys, just gave the pups some puppy milk, some better than others! Then mum went in of course to finish it off. Pups had a little suckle now back to sleep.

Suppose I'll stick to this for a couple of days and see how they get on before introducing some mush like buscuits to the mix.

By what age should the puppies be on solid biscuits with no mush so that I can plan a feeding schedule (ish)?

Frankie was wormed from day 40 with panacur until two days post whelp. She was wormed at 2 weeks on day 2 of the 3 day cycle. Most pups will be leaving us at around 9 weeks (due to Xmas) but some will be staying the 12 weeks. Is the general advice here then to worm the pups staying the full length in full and hand over the 8-weekers to the new home having had no vaccinations? Not sure I like that but I will have a think.

I used weaning food from AG and soaked that in warm goats milk and made a big mush of it and then slowly moved onto water to mush it up and then gradually over time to soaked kibble but not mushed.

I wouldn't vaccinate any puppy leaving at 8 weeks, if they are with you for the duration of a course then yes I would vaccinate.

> I wouldn't vaccinate any puppy leaving at 8 weeks, if they are with you for the duration of a course then yes I would vaccinate.

Agreed.  If we let any of our puppies go before 10 weeks, they went without vaccination but as I only let puppies go before 10 weeks to people I knew or were experienced, they went off with strict instructions to start vaccination at 10 weeks and NOT to allow them in contact with any other dogs before then.   And as with those we still had, advise people visiting left their shoes at the door and washed their hands.    Puppies can of course, be vaccinated at 8 weeks, but I prefer to allow the extra time to be sure mum's immunity had dropped off enough to allow external vaccination to 'take'.   Any still with me by 10 weeks, were given their first etc. vaccination shots, with those we were running on.

Worming - it sounds a bit as if you are confusing worming with vaccinating?    Again our puppies were wormed using a gentle worming syrup, from 2 weeks of age, and every 2 weeks up to when they went home.   Their owners were armed with a worming/other medical history for the new owners' vet to see what had been given, and when.   I'd usually recommend they reworm at 3 months.

I found puppy milk alone caused pups to splutter and was always wary in case of inhalation, so always start mine with some soaked mashed food in with it, to make a gruel/porridge.

I start at 18 days offering individually one meal (often just a teaspoon each), next day twice third day three times and 4th day at 21 days 4 times and just steadily increase the amount of puppy food.

I give them 1/4 pint each of puppy milk a day by 4 weeks, and don't increase that, just the puppy food increases, and drop the puppy milk by 6 weeks, sooner if there is any looseness, as Mum weans them off milk.  By 5 weeks the Milk is given after their increasingly drier puppy food.

I don't vaccinate pups before homing unless they are staying past 10 weeks, and then they have to stay until the f7ull course of two injections has been done.  I won't send a part vaccinated pup out.

I worm with Panacur during pregnancy (25 day course) which means they should be pretty much born worm free, so I don't worm pups until 3 weeks, and then again at 7 wee4ks, so they are full wormed and tums settled before going off to new homes.

Then I advise pups to be wormed at 11 weeks, and in between puppy vaccinations so they are not having everything else at once.

Pups should be wormed monthly to 6 months and then as adults.

All my dogs are wormed when a it is in season before mating and then when pups have left.

Hmm hindsight is great. I wish I had done the same as you Brainless and wormed at 3 weeks to avoid the 8 week worming (if new owners take to get vaccinated at 8 weeks). If I wormed at 2 weeks is it too long to wait until 7?

I would never feed dry biscuit to a dog of any age. By 6 weeks I soak well but dont mash and same with all my adults

> I would never feed dry biscuit to a dog of any age. By 6 weeks I soak well but dont mash

That is what I meant by increasingly drier from a  gruel, to mashed to just soaked, with warm water, then cold, and the length of teem soaked..

I do feed my adults their food dry and pups from about 12 weeks.

Facebook Reply:

Donna Brand Hickey says: I weaned our pups on the same puppy food that their mum is having. Soaked with puppy milk and then put in processor so it was just like very thin ready brex. It's very messy business but they soon get used to it. I gradually increased the amount and the amount of meals through the next week, but decreased the amount of milk.

> Facebook Reply:<br /><br />Donna Brand Hickey says: I weaned our pups on the same puppy food that their mum is having. Soaked with puppy milk and then put in processor so it was just like very thin ready brex. It's very messy business but they soon get used to it. I gradually increased the amount and the amount of meals through the next week, but decreased the amount of milk.

Again - why puppy food for mum?   Good quality adult food for mum, and puppy food...... FOR PUPPIES!   Puppy food is very rich and may well be too much for mum, nursing a litter or not.    We'd soak the puppy food and blend it so it was a thin porridge at the outset, decreasing the amount of liquid as the puppies got older and more able to eat puppy food without being moist.   And we used warmed water or goats milk.   More often water than goats milk - which with our heavy boned breed, we'd give mid-morning, mid-afternoon and last thing rather than with their food.   People with other breeds wouldn't necessarily need half of what we used for our breed much as you breed for bone, and feed to promote it.

Mamabas,

I respect that you choose not to give your dogs puppy food during pregnancy/nursing, however - as I am giving it to my PUPPIES, and greedy guts will (despite my best efforts) eat the leftovers, it seems like common sense to me that she shouldn't be eating random bits of food that she's not used to. I'd rather get her accustomed to it in the late stages of pregnancy and then be fine with eating it when the pups are on it, than desperately try not to upset her stomach by somehow finding a way to stop her going near it.

Just my opinion; each to their own :-)

I also feed my dams puppy food after whelping as calorie protein and fat requirements are greater during peak lactation, up to whelping I just feed greater quantities of their standard food. Works for me and most people I know feed puppy food post whelping until weaning completed. Helps maintain good body condition but everyone has their own methods

Any particular recommendations for puppy milk? My previous litters have always refused any sort of puppy porridge and gone straight for meat. I did try this lot with a tiny tiny bit a couple of days ago, they are 3.5 weeks now, but there was no interest, so I thought as there's no hurry of course, I might try the milk / mush idea again. It's 5 years since my last litter so I've forgotten where I got the puppy milk from though!

> Any particular recommendations for puppy milk? My previous litters have always refused any sort of puppy porridge and gone straight for meat. I did try this lot with a tiny tiny bit a couple of days ago, they are 3.5 weeks now, but there was no interest, so I thought as there's no hurry of course, I might try the milk / mush idea again. It's 5 years since my last litter so I've forgotten where I got the puppy milk from though!

We used goats milk - but always had Esbilac on hand in case it was needed.   We'd give our litters a tiny amount of raw lean mince (hamburger if you prefer) when weaning is started, but only once a day much as it was eagerly eaten.  So much so it was tempting to give them more and risk upsetting immature digestive systems.    As for the puppy porridge - we did use warmed goats milk, but more often just warmed water to mix it into a porridge. 

On the subject of feeding mum puppy food - briefly because indeed, each to their own, our bitches were allowed in after feeding the puppies to clean up so of course they'd be eating a bit of what they were eating.   But that didn't mean I fed her this in her normal meals.   Bassets don't do well on rich food in any case, whether nursing a litter or not, which is probably why I'd not bother to give mine puppy food.   I guess this is why opinions differ on a general forum.   'Horses for courses'.

Goats milk is easy enough if that's ok, Hetty is very keen on hers. I remember years ago with my first litter finding naughty old Henry jumping into the puppy pen to steal theirs! My friend gave Hetty some RC 'mother & baby' food while she was staying with her towards the end of her pregnancy. I know quite a few people aren't keen on RC, but hers are all fed on it and have lovely glossy coats, plenty of energy, and live to a good age. And as Hetty has been known to be a picky eater and she seems to like this food, I'm sticking with it, though also feeding some of her JWB so that she doesn't forget what she has to go back too post puppies!

What are people mixing with the goats milk / warm water? Just a bit of crushed up puppy kibble? And of course they will get meaty meals too, as I said earlier that's generally what my puppies prefer.

I always go for the goats milk based formula Nutrolac. 

Cows Milk based I always liked Litterlac