What do people think of the electronic collars (i.e. static eletricity/shock collars?). I have been recommended to get one for my labrador to curb his jumping and eating other dog's feces. (Yes, we have tried EVERYTHING and then some for the poop eating). I have mixed feelings on the subject. Has anyone ever used one? (The remote controlled kind). Feedback?

Sammy
I don't agree with them...The eating other dog pooh ? where does he do this ? The jumping up ? what have you tried to stop him doing this ?
Have you squirted water in his face when he does it..have you tried turning your back on him and completely ignoring him, have you tried putting your knee up when he jumps up ? I'm sure others will have other suggestions too without the use of the collars.
Tracey

Yes, yes, and yes to all of these. Just picked up him from the daycare we leave him when we go away for a night (nice open spaces where he can run with other dogs), and they said that if he didn't stop eating poop, they weren't going to let him back.

You could always sayy tht if they don't clean up the poop before your dog can eat it then you won't be taking him back anyway!

Christine

Hi Sammy try doing a search on e-collers as this subject has been gone over a few times before and it is one that causes quiet alot of heated debate and strong feelings.Gillian

This topic came up in a thread on only Friday so my views don't need stating again

I just did a little research and have found that they no longer sell the remote, shock collars, only the ones that emit an irritating noise. What about these?

Hi
Noise control doesn't cause pain so I would go with that, never had experience of them though.
Tracey

Unfortunatly you are wrong on that too Sammy! the collars are still available to any untrained fool!

Well, I have no plans on seeking out the shock collar if the sound one would work well. Have no intentions of hurting my dog or making any problems even worse. I'm sure everyone's been at the point where they feel like they've tried everything. . . ! I know he needs more training, but he's so stubborn, and I thought that the noise collar might help.

Sammy, maybe John can offer you some advice on how to sort your problems out?

To be honest, if he is at daycare but eats poop, then the daycare facilities should perhaps pull their socks up and make sure they clean up after dogs immediately and, if necessary, manage the situation.....is it possible to use a basket type muzzle, for instance?

Also, exactly why are they so concerned - its not "nice" but many dogs do it, and it is a natural behaviour. Also, the more attention a dog gets for doing it, the more likely he is to keep doing it, so it's possible the staff have added tothe problem.

All my friends' dogs grab at fresh horse manure out in the forest, but they tried to stop them from puppies, whereas dogs who have been ignored and distracted from this have not ended up as pooh eaters :D

There can also be medical reasons for a dog persistently eating pooh, so it may be worth considering these.

Lindsay

I understand what you're saying, but I've visited the facility and think that they do an okay job. The problem is really with our dog -- he will find a dog that is pooping and stick his head underneath the dog's behind while the dog is still going!! I know that it is somewhat of a normal behavior, but he has gotten sick from it (as if vomit wasn't bad enough!). Dogs can get worms from this (which he has). He also does it at the dog park or when he's on a leash he will lunge for some if he spies some.
I've never seen a basket muzzle -- can you describe them? I'm not sure if this would work because it doesn't sound like something that could stay on for 12 hours at a time, which is how long he occasionally spends there (when we go away or something).

Hi
Dogs dont get worms from eating fresh dog poop. The worms eggs have to mature before they become infective. It seems a disgusting habit but rarely causes a problem.
Aileen

I don't doubt that you're right, but the fact the of the matter is that my dog has gotten sick several times from his disgusting habit. Whether or not the poop had been around for a while, I don't know, but it doesn't seem to matter to him if it's fresh or not.

I read in the paper on Friday that there is a group of MPs trying to get these collars banned. The first vote was passed, but I don't think there will be time for it to become law.

I didn't know about that, I hope they do get banned in the end.

Lindsay

A bit off the thread, but my hubb is watching that "Jackass" programme on MTV.

They have just put an electric collar round their necks and shocked themselves (for fun, or laughs). I don't know much about them, but watching that made it look a painful device, and we never want to teach our dogs through pain.

Good luck though, with your poop eating pooch!

Luv S

I'm sure I read in a Dog World column that a boiled egg a day is a cure. Probably an old wives tale but must be worth a go surely.

CRAZICREST
The dog will enjoy it if nothing else :D
Tracey

I think that's for dogs who eat their own poop. I've heard that and other similar food cures -- unfortunately, if I could only give it to every dog in the world, the problem would be solved - lol!

I assumed the egg was suppossed to counter a vitamin/mineral deficiency rather than make the poo unappetising. Was just a guess though.

Maybe, but he's already on a vitamin supplements, and we give him a scrambled egg once every two weeks for his coat. Thanks for the advice though! It's why I come here!

HI
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE EGG DOES FOR HIS COAT.
THANK YOU.

Giving a dog an egg once a week or every two weeks is supposed to have vitamins in it that make his coat shiny and healthy.

I had to laugh at the picture you described of your pooh eating pooch - !!!!! :D :D :D he is obviously very eager ;)

A basket muzzle is made of plastic or metal and has a sort of open weave - if you do a search on them you will come up with some pictures. I can see why the staff want to solve the problem :p

Lindsay

Hi all,

I know the subject of ecollars has been explored before. But I thought I would share something with you. Anybody who may have seen previous posts by me will know that I have a 1 year old Dobe "Max". Both my wife and I have had dogs previously and training was limited to the standard "reward - treat" training and we encountered no difficulties (or we thought back then). However we had not had a Dobe before and a few months ago it was plain that he was becoming out of control. We tried everything - and I mean everything (check out the previous posts and you will see. Quite simply his rank drive was that of small dictator in a banana republic. His quality of life was seriously becoming under threat as we could not take him to our families houses without trouble. He is not aggressive I should point out.

Finally after Christmas it was getting to the point that we were seriously worried. We would not give up out dog for all the tea in china but at the same time it was heading to the situation that he ate through walls, chewed everything, was jumping on people, refused to recall etc. We were at the last straw and knew that if we didnt so something fast then we would end up living with an essentially unhappy dog and owners for the next 10 years.

We engaged a drive stimulation trainer who has trained US to use the ecollar. The collar has worked wonders. Most people believe that our dog was kidnapped by aliens and swapped for an obidient dog. We now have a reliable recall first time every time, sit, downs, stays out of sight and this was accomplished in about a month and a half.

A word of caution I would never recommend anybody use the ecollar without professional guidance by a qualified trainer. These are not remote controls for dogs. They are used in a specific training regime and MUST be used properly. Like any tool a bad workman can bodge things.

I have spoken to various people on the subject but find that the misconceptions regarding them are totally wrong or wholly inappropriate. For example, in the above post the reference to the "Jackass" programme. I have seen this and this is NOT an ecollar the idiots where using. Anybody who has actually used the equipment shoudl try it on themselves first. We are not talking about a "electric shock" per se. We are talking a distractive tickle. Anybody who disagrees with this is welcome to come to my house and Ill gladly show them.

Like anything (including a normal flat collar - halti and chokes) they can be misused by the owner. Thats where training comes in. The facts are out there includingthe studies on dogs. But the bottom line is my dog now comes with me to work and all public places dogs can go (shopping centres etc). His quality of life has improved beyond measure and this was not done as a timesaver or any laziness on our part I can assure you.

I realise that some people may not want to use the ecollar but its a matter of personal choice and I for one after seeing the misinformed myths surrounding the ecollar would gladly use drive stimulation training with an ecollar on any of my dogs in the future. No doubt some have emotive feelings about this subject but before I am flamed please ask yourself if you have personally used or tested this equipment and seen the results of it. They are far removed from the models available some years ago which were "shock" collars earthed to the ground when activated. Static collars available today are infinately superior in terms of the safety studies and

At the end of the day its a matter of personal choice for all but in closing I would say that I had never realised how many dogs are simply not under any form of control. Anybody who walks in places off leash with other dogs will no doubt see the familar sight of the owner standing in a field yelling "Fido" for half an hour or dog simply taking the owner for a walk and not the other way around.

The use of the ecollar at its height of training was limited to maybe 3 corrections per day. Now we simply dont have to use it. I finally have the companion that I always dreamed about - able to heel off leash. You have not seen a happier dog and the bond that it has reinforced between us makes me a most proud "dad".

I didnt mean to post this to start a debate or cause people to post "I would never..." but is merely representitive of my own experiences and hopefully if it saves 1 dog owner from giving up and another dog in rescue then its worth it.

Take care all. but please before using any ecollar get professional training yourself to understand its use.

Daren

Thank you Daren, very helpful info.

Hello Sammy,
Firstly and briefly I refer to Josh’s posting seemingly someone has misinformed him that E collars are used to teach a dog to sit down etc, NO they are NOT used to teach the dog sits and downs etc, that is a fallacy put about by those with a commercial interest and training methods threatened by correct use of the E collar. E collars are used for KNOWN commands and are used in a reward based training system.
________________________
I was trained on an E about last March or thereabouts on a one to one. I was not just trained to use an E, I took an professional obedience training course and was trained in drive stimulation techniques, which have 100% record of success. I emphasise my course was by a pro trainer and NOT a behaviourist and he made it quite clear he would be offended by that term if it were applied to him.. I think it is important and contextual to emphasis that Pro trainers have nothing to do with the word behaviourist or any organisation connected to them. I don’t think my dog was as bad as the Dobermann above but to us he had reached a point where life was almost totally centred on just how much more we could take. We had led ourselves into a psychological ‘condition’ of believing things would get better ‘tomorrow’. We had been to a behaviourist training class for at least one year and some puppy socialization prior to that. We and most others in the class had all sorts of disruptive and destructive behaviour both at home, the park and everywhere else. Like most people we wanted to enjoy our dog, that is why we got a dog, what we had was not only not enjoyable it was a great strain on the relationship with our dog although, and I emphasise this, we did not realize just how bleak and empty it was until we took our training course with a pro trainer. We were always told by the person running the behaviourist class, and also with our first dog at a similar class, that corrections were cruel, unkind unnecessary and would make the dogs aggressive etc, yet he had no qualms about clamping a dogs head in a halter collar which had not training purpose but forced the dog to walk at heel. I had asked about the E collars at class and been told that giving the dog ‘shocks’ out of the blue would do this and that to him, that training a dog with pain was not training etc, what he never could tell any of us was how to get our dogs well behaved and obeying us, just an endless parade of depressed dog owners going nowhere and staying nowhere and dogs trudging dull eyed and indifferent around a hall every week, only to pull us back to the cars when we left. Always the same solution, “give him a distraction etc” he claimed this was a reward, I NOW know that it is rewarding bad behaviour and the dog only attracts to a distraction if it feels at the time the distraction is more interesting than the distraction causing the unwanted behaviour, it also associates the distraction as a reward for the misbehaviour which is why people never get rid of the problem. To cut a long story short I knew nothing of the dogs psychology which is encompassed in its drives. The reason for the vast majority of problems in dogs is the fact that the training methods used do not teach the dog in a natural way, the dogs simply do not ‘learn’ except that they get rewarded for misbehaviour, perpetually reinforcing the dogs positive behaviour, which, to the dog, is what bad behaviour is! Behaviourists know nothing of the dogs psychology as they claim, not only did the training class fail us and most of the other dog owners but we called in a behaviourist who showed us how to throw a small but noisy chain near our dog when he would not respond to no, she then proceeded to sell us one at £18 on top of her fee of £35, a hard and useless lesson in trying frighten him into stopping his bad behaviour.

Our pro trainer was in a different league No behaviourists selling points, No bunkum, just the ease and simplicity of the dogs drives, NOT only THEORY he had our dog as a lower ranking to him within 2 mins, on top of which our dog was showing NO fear, NO signs of stress in fact nothing negative at all (as we had been brainwashed into believing ). In short, all the reward and treats and claptrap training we had done did not teach the dog anything but how to misbehave and to keep our relationship with him at the lowest possible level. Does anyone reading this seriously think that either a pup in a litter or an adult, lower ranking member of a hierarchal dog pack, (ranging from 2 upwards) think for one single moment that it is offered distractions for bad behaviour? does its mother offer the pup a treat when it misbehaves? NO of course not, does a higher ranking dog wait until the disruptive unwanted behaviour of a lower ranking member of the pack stops and then reward it as soon as the behaviour stops? Well that is what treat trainers are trying to convince people of resulting in classes going on indefinably and to their own commercial gain. I was surprised when I first contacted our pro trainer and asked about his training courses, surprised because it was on written contract only, with 6 ONLY lessons and with a written guarantee ON TOP of which there was NO assessment fee except expenses and a try before you buy trail of the course, including the first lesson, without any commitment either side and we only accepted the contract if we wanted to continue. To be honest both myself and my partner, within 5 minuets of talking to him had been almost transported by a device from science fiction to the REAL world of the REAL dog and away from what was the abyss of dog owning misery we had been struggling with for around a year, more with puppy training. Then we were given a demo of our trainers dog, NOT for our trainer to show us “Watch him obey my command watch him sit etc” ( although he did do that ) we were shown the actual drive changes so we FULLY understood what drives are ( at least the ones relevant to obedience training) on an elementary basis. To conclude, we were given an obedience course by a pro, this includes the use of the E collar, BEFORE any use of the E collar we had to use it on ourselves over a weeks period. On the first lesson we not only had it used on us by our trainer we used it on him BEFORE we ever used it on our dog, and I can say this. Use of the E collar in a reward based obedience training course by a trainer with an exemplary record is the greatest thing we ever did for our dog and our relationship with him. We had distance recalls within 4 lessons, down stays, out of sight stays and ALL with distractions, BUT, what we really had been taught was NOT “This is how you use an E collar” we were given a comprehensive obedience training course for our pet dog, a full understanding of the dogs psychology with a practical application of the dogs psychology within a reward based system, the E collar is a part of that and is NOT supposed to be used by inflicting a shock into the dog, these are entirely false stories put about by those whose commercial interests are under threat by the E collar. They are recommended after research by world respected humane societies and they are not just condoned they are recommended by them, I will give that info if requested. I will say this, anyone wanting to try them or find out more TRUTHFULL info on them should do it through a pro trainer who will teach you drive training, it is not just the E collars you need to learn it is how to obedience train your dog, especially if you have been to never ending reward only classes, they are never ending because your dog is being given learning difficulties, to prolong your attendance and increase a perpetual income of those running these ‘classes‘.. As regards the so called shock. Electric shock collars have been obsolete since about 1988. They worked like electric cattle fences and shock went through the body of the dog and earthed on the ground, they only had one high level, they were NOT designed for anything other than Pro trainers and for special or exceptional circumstances, having said that who has ever seen cattle anything but happily grazing where they are used? The modern multi level E collar MUST be of a reputable make, it must be a TRAINING collar and NOT just ‘an E collar’ ( there are many around, some not reputable, some designed for obedience training and others for advanced training, these are not suitable for obedience training pets ). They discharge a static electric discharge between two contact points which stimulates the skin area between the two contact points, they have around 18 levels ( which is something you need to be taught about ) and you use only the lowest levels, the higher levels are for dogs with high sensitivity levels and more advanced techniques. The only suffering from the use of E collars is the bank balances of those who draw out so called obedience training lessons year in year out and those who come round as behaviourists or therapists etc only to do bizarre things and walk of with your money. I am an experienced drive stimulation trained pet owner and would not hesitate to support the use of E collars in the above context. I am an experienced reward only trained pet owner with one years weekly training experience and would not recommend these courses.

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