Hi,

Can anyone give some advice.

We have had a litter of puppy's, and they are all doing very good. But we mated half sister / brother. We did some research and seven spoke to some top breeders. Most said it was OK, but now its done we are regretting doing to and having sleepless nights.

We have sold some (taken deposit, but can refund) already and even sent some of the people a pic of the pedigree tree (so they can see, buy maybe they didn't notice) and told one persons because they asked about the health, she was happy still, as we explained why we did it.

We did it because when we were trying to find a mate, we had conflicting story about the dogs health we were going to use. The lines we used has never had any problems, so we thought this would be the best/safe way to go. The breeder has been doing  breeding for along time and was confident that its not a problem as he knows his dogs. But now I don't know.

As they are KC reg, and I check it was OK to register them first. So I thought that made it OK, so I could just sell as normal.

So to the questions.
1, Was this OK, or have I made a big mistake.
2, Should I just sell as normal.
3, or should I be sending out the pedigree form so people can see first, before I take the deposit.
4, should I tell them, but this would mean its a problem, else why would I be telling them.
5, if no one (apart form the 1 person I told) wants them, should I put them up for Adoption or sell them for £0 on a popular website (but homes maybe not as good as the we are hopping for) !!!

The COI of the puppy's 13.8

Thanks,
Help

> if no one (apart form the 1 person I told) wants them, should I put them up for Adoption or sell them for £0 on a popular website (but homes maybe not as good as the are hopping for) !!!

NO NO NO!  Giving them away on that popular website allows people to pick pups up as ideal "bait" for fighting dogs.

PS - both dogs have had all KC required checks + more. DNA, Hip, etc.

Half brother to half sister is perfectly okay IF you know the lines well, have the relevant health tests for the breed, know there is nothing bad behind them that can pop up (as linebreeding will strengthen both good and bad points). And if you are confident you can find the right homes for the pups as some people have been too scared by bad stories in the media. The COI isn't particularly high, I have dogs  that are higher without being half brother to half sister (one is 17.6 %) and I have twice done half brother to half sister (they are 15.6). My best dog ever was 20.3 and lived until 14. But you really must know the dogs in the pedigree, their health etc, and not just the names. It's not for the novice. And next time, if it was me, I'd go for an outcross line.

What one earth are you in a big panic over? Why after the mating too, any doubts should have been prior to mating, this is silly, give yourself a slap and stop it, why are you devaluing a perfectly good litter?

The KC have no problem in registering the litter, and the people buying your pups will have no problem as long as health, breed standard and temperament were all factored in. The KC have stopped many really close matings, father-daughter, mother -son, full brother- sister etc not because of our human incest quibbles but due to some breeders breeding in genetic defects, hence the COI.

If the lines are good then the 'half' will be bringing in new blood, so it is ok as long as there are no issues being bred in....(which you should know)

If all lines are good, you appear to have made enquires and talked to other breeders too, it is fair to do the mating, although there are many studs out there all over the country which I guess you could also have used, but ce la vie, you chose this stud, for your good reasons, your pups are in no way devalued, or unwanted, so stop being silly.

They will be KC reg, from good lines (as said) so what on earth is the problem here, there is nothing to explain?

Enjoy rearing them and find them the best of homes, vet extremely carefully and (don't you dare **slap hands** sell them cheaply, asking for trouble as already said) for goodness sake cheer up and enjoy your litter.

> The lines we used has never had any problems, so we thought this would be the best/safe way to go. The breeder has been doing  breeding for along time and was confident that its not a problem as he knows his dogs.

My youngest bitch champion (now 7) is from such a mating (COI: 13.7) the half siblings had the same mother who at the time was a healthy 9 year old, from my 4th generation, with three adult healthy litters behind her (the mating was between a daughter from first litter and son from her last, and both had totally unrelated sires), the COI was quite similar.

Of course it does limit you in the next generation and you will need to find an unrelated mate for the offspring you intent to keep.  You will also need to avoid breeding from a puppy displaying the faults of the parents, as they are more likely to be passed on when they are bred from, equally the good points have a chance of coming through strongly (which is why this sort of breeding was practiced, but it's a two edged sword)..

> So to the questions.

1, Was this OK, or have I made a big mistake.
2, Should I just sell as normal.
3, or should I be sending out the pedigree form so people can see first, before I take the deposit.
4, should I tell them, but this would mean its a problem, else why would I be telling them.
5, if no one (apart form the 1 person I told) wants them, should I put them up for Adoption or sell them for £0 on a popular website (but homes maybe not as good as the we are hopping for) !!!

1. Yes, if the parents have been health tested and the lines produced healthy offspring.  This along with grandparent to grand offspring is the closet the KC now allow, though there are dogs bred with higher COI's, with multiple line breeding.
2. Yes.
3. You should always have the pedigree available to the buyers, and they can make up their own minds.  If any are planning on breeding you will need to tell them they need to mate to unrelated lines in next generation.
4.  You would tell them the reasons for your choice of sire, and what you hoped to achieve in the litter by your choice, in the normal run of things.
5. Absolutely no reason why they should not be home able, if they are healthy typical pups.  I assume you will endorse the puppies (progeny not eligible for registration), as most god breeders do,  and not lift such endorsements unless all relevant health testing is carried out and advice sought on mating partners.

The best dog I have owned was from a half sibling mating -top male in breed 2000 Multi CC winner, worked in field from  August to end  Januray 2-3 days a week.
COI was higher as some common ancestors on non sibling side of pedigree.

If the dogs themselves are healthy and all appropriate tests completed and mating done in absence of Rose tinted glasses there is absolutely nothing wrong with this mating IMHO

HI,

Thanks all for your help and advice, this has really helped and very constructive. 

We have also started putting a photo of the mini pedigree and puppy info you get with the KC puppy pack, in Emails we send out (2 today and they didn't have a problem and reserved a pup each) to people who inquire. So if that's something they are interested in, they can check it out.

We are a lot calmer now

Thanks
Helpme

New puppy breeders and new Mums have a lot in common, it's probably the lack of sleep

As said, half brother to half sister is perfectly fine, although it's best if the non-common relationship is not too close.   The Kennel Club will allow this kind of mating (registration) although I think I'm right is saying they recommend a novice breeder contact a knowledgeable breeder within their breed before going ahead, for information and advice.   I don't think you need to worry AT ALL about what you have done.   This kind of closer line-breeding is used quite a lot, usually to good effect.   The secret is to know what to do with the next breeding!!   Probably wise to go out.