Please help me!!!

We've had our GSD puppy only 4 days and already I want to get rid of him!
I'm not looking for judgemental comments just some help!
He will sleep in his crate over night till about 6am with some but very little whining but as soon as I leave the room to go to the bathroom or do anything he screams in his crate! We try to ignore him as much as possible but he is so loud it's unbearable! I'm constantly worried sick for our neighbours. I did go and speak to them yesterday to apologise for his noise and they said it's ok don't worry about it but if I was our neighbour I would be going mad.
I wake up and let him out to the toilet at 6 which he cries for and then he comes in and does it again inside and will not settle anywhere but the living room rug so I'm bound to the sofa in the mornings.
I also work full time so he gets left in the day but I've always had dogs before and never had a problem with them but our new puppy cries and almost screams his head off constantly while we're gone. The neighbour said he does it for hours after we have left and it's really loud. Even if I go upstairs or to put the bins out he howls for me. I can't go to the toilet or even leave the room without him attached to my hip it's becoming unbearable. I'm afraid to leave the house because of his noise and crying. The worst thing is I've not really bonded with him cause I'm always trying to ignore him so he doesn't become too attached and then it would get worse.
Tell me what to do! I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of him. I desperately feel like I havnt given him a chance but he is overbearing and causing arguments.
Will he grow out of it and just get used to is going to work or will this happen forever?

Please help me!!!
We've had our GSD puppy only 4 days and already I want to get rid of him!

Then the best thing to is just that, get rid of him, non of us always make the best choices all the time, each time, getting him wasn't one of your better ones.

I cant help i am not involved with that breed but some on here might be & they might be able to give you some ideas or help.
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Hi

It's very very early days! Think of it from his view a few days ago he had mom and siblings all snug then taken away to strange place and left on own. Did you consider taking time off work for his first week? I did this with the cats and puppies I had. Try a radio on for him our lab loved talk live for company. After waking and breakfast spend playtime with him. Fuss him and give a small treat when he settles quietly. Our Cocker whined if left room,go to bin however I used to vocalise I'm still here hush now and he did in time get better.
It's hard work with a puppy  I'd forgotten the demands etc and after 3 months one night question but the no I wanted a dog and it's only a short time made it disappear. Who feeds puppy when at work? Or let's him out for toilet? A playtime built in there would help.
You say you haven't bonded? Did you think it through the ins and out a puppy in the household would create?
Please don't ignore him,he wants attention and reassurance. I would suggest a few days holiday to bond with him and set routine. If you feel you cannot commit fully to the puppy then best for him and you return him to the breeder.

This probably isn't what you want to hear but here goes anyway....

It sounds like you haven't planned his arrival very well and are inexperienced with puppies, and how they behave when they are taken away from their litter mates into a strange environment.

Leaving him alone all day while you're at work isn't ideal, especially if he's crated......in fact it's quite cruel.

You need to be at home with him for a couple of weeks at least and gradually introduce him to his crate, building up the time he's in there. I feed in the crate with the door open and leave water in there too, just so they can go in and out of their own free will....

4 days is nowhere near enough time for him to understand he needs to toilet outside, you need to take him outside and stay there until he goes - even if it's blowing a blizzard- if you bring him in without him going it's telling him he doesn't really need to go outside it's ok to go in home....perseverance and praise are the keys. Not sure how you can do this though if you're leaving him crated and alone all day?

You need to give him plenty of cuddles - he's feeling very lonely and worried at the minute...it's all so strange and new to him.

If I'm honest and you think you've done the wrong thing or can't cope with his needs, you really should return him to his breeder.....at the end of the day it's what's best for the puppy.

You didn't want judgemental replies, but your situation is unsuitable for puppy/dog ownership, and especially of this breed who are well known for their sometimes extreme attachment to a particular person.

>Will he grow out of it and just get used to is going to work or will this happen forever?

Some dogs and breeds are more self sufficient and learn to cope with a full time working owner, (though could you cross your legs for 10 hours?).
Practicalities:

You extremely lucky pup can go without needing to go toilet in the night this early, and not getting up until 6am.

How do you expect a baby puppy to hold it's bladder,  while your out at work?  A pup needs taking for a toilet break, after every meal, when it wakes, and after any excitement/play, and basically at least hourly whilst awake to start with.  it won't have much voluntary bladder control until around 5 months old (I know my current youngest is coming up 5 months, and we still get accidents, (entirely sown to us bein out ro not noticing her standing by the door).

Dogs are a social species, so the worst thing for them is separation from their pack (you).  Until now pup has had the benefit of a Mother and littermates and attention of the breeder through the day.

Of course when you are finally at home the pup needs your company and reassurance, as I expect at present, after crying for you it sleeps most of the day.

If you cannot arrange proper daycare for this puppy, and don't have the patience for the puppy rearing, do him a favour and take him back to the breeder so they can find him a more suitable home.

You would be far better off getting a cat, who with a litter tray, some suitable toys, will be much happier while your at work, especially an adult.

How much time have you given him to love and affection? Playing? Training at this time? Why can't you leave him settled on the rug to go and do things?
When you are at work where is he? Crate or loose in a room? Do you or anyone else pop in while you're out working to feed him, let him out, play with him?
I would consider taking time off work to settle him in and begin bonding with him. When you go back to work set up a pen area in a room so he can move about and play and arrange if you can't for someone to pop in 2-3 times at least to give him company, take him outside, play with him and give him his lunch. You may have to pay a local dog walker to do this if you nor a friend or family can.

If this is not viable then id look at what kind of life this is for the puppy, not a brilliant one and would return to the breeder sooner rather than later.

Agree with all the above, the time has come for you to consider whether a dog is right for you and your lifestyle currently.
Are you on your own with no backup from a partner to take turns? Raising a puppy is hard work and they can try you constantly. If you are having problems now, then caring for a lively teenage dog is really going to try your patience.
I'm not against people having dogs and working full time. My niece and her husband have recently got a cocker spaniel puppy. They spent a lot of time making sure everything was in place before the pup came home. They each took a week off work back to back, so the pup had someone there for two weeks. A dog walker was employed to come in during the morning and afternoon to let the pup out and play with him for a while and my niece is able to come home at lunchtime. You can't leave a tiny pup entirely on its own all day and not expect a problem.
You're puppy is desparate for attention and he doesn't seem to be getting it from you, no wonder he's crying so much, he must be so lonely.
Please consider taking him back to the breeders.

Send him back to the breeder immediately.......... what you are doing is downright cruel.......you do not buy a baby animal especially from a very social species group and leave it alone to go to work......would you leave a newborn baby alone? Of course not....you can get away with it with an adult.......but never with a puppy, send him back the poor thing must be so lonely, bored, and desperate for contact.............

Agree with everything the other postees have said.

We try not to judge but certain circumstances, mean you may hear things you may not like or want to hear.

Please do what is best for this puppy & return it to the breeder.

Plan your next dog well in advance & I would say if your not prepared to take time off work, for a puppy then an adult would be a better possibility but even they would need time spent with you during the day, to settle into a totally new environment, which is alien to them.

So no one ever had German shepherds and goes to work then?? Everyone with puppies is unemployed??
I have taken a week off work already with him.
He is only in a crate during the night which he is fine with and gets taken out twice in the night then put straight back in.
In the day we a stairs hate at the stairs and living room because he isn't fully house broken so he had the hall and the kitchen and plenty of toys.
How dare you call me an inexperienced puppy owner I have had 5 dogs all from puppies and they have all been fine being left.
I go home at lunch time and check and feed him and take him to the toilet. But as soon as I leave he starts again.
I do try and leave him on the rug while I go things but he doesn't stay there and cries when I get up.
I was more looking for advice on what I could do rather than you all telling me to take him back to the breeder. He wasn't from a breeder that would take him back just someone who's dog had puppies.
Try and be a bit more understanding that people do work and still have dogs!

>Try and be a bit more understanding that people do work and still have dogs!

You're talking to people who most likely wouldn't have sold you one in the first place.
You've acquired a dog from someone who obviously doesnt care, wont stand by it .....so fails on both counts.

You have taken a puppy from all that he knows, with constant companionship, and plonked him in a house by himself, then left him most of the day while you work.  He's doing pretty much what I'd expect him to do, especially of a breed that tends to be very much a one-person dog.  He is being left too long at a stretch, and he already sounds like he's got separation anxiety which in this situation, does not surprise me at all.  yes, plenty of people have dogs and work all day, including puppies, and plenty of those develop just these problems.

You've also gotten a pup from a poor source, so there may be bad genetics at play too, making him more nervous than you might expect - GSDs breed poorly can be very nervous, unfortunately.

I would try to arrange for someone to look after him during the day, or at the very least, give him additional breaks halfway through your morning and afternoon work, not least because his bladder isn't developed enough to last that long so housetraining is going to be hard going, but also to ease his separation troubles.  When you're home, you need to be doing some separation training - start with teeny tiny absences - to begin with, through the stairgate and back without going out of sight, over and over until he doesn't react to that; then through and out of sight for a split second and back, over and over until he's happy with that; then a full second, then two and so on, until you can leave him for a good half an hour out of sight but in the house without a fuss.  Then you can start on absences proper - going to the front door and back, then opening and shutting the door, then stepping through and back without shutting it, then out and shut for a split second, then out and shut for a full second, then two, then three and so on.  It sounds a lot of work but when you actually get on with it, it does go quickly.  But best to crack on now, sooner the better.  However - as long as he is still being left and getting distressed for any length of time, any efforts will most likely be a waste of time so the first thing you need to address is care for him while you are not there.

> He wasn't from a breeder that would take him back just someone who's dog had puppies.

That is a breeder, anyone who has had a litter from their dog is a breeder, even if it's just once.

You have given a little more information in your next post, which wasn't in your original post.

We are trying to advise but it may not be what you were wanting to hear..it is still advice all the same.

Good luck in what ever you decide to do.

Welcome to the forum.

> I have had 5 dogs all from puppies and they have all been fine being left

Have you always had an older dog in the house when you introduced a new puppy? In my experience, puppies will take their cue from how any established dogs within the household react to given situations. If the older dogs did not mind being left, then the puppy will learn that it is nothing to worry about, from watching the other dogs. If you have no other dogs then you will need to teach the puppy that it is ok to be left and that you will come back.

This is not going to happen over night and is going to take a lot of work on your part. I am not sure how you can achieve this if you are at work full time as it will require leaving the pup for short periods and then returning. Please seriously ask yourself if you are prepared to put in that hard work and implement the suggestions/ideas that will be offered on this forum? If the answer is YES then I am sure the members will offer you all the advice that they can so that you can get over this problem - but your heart must be in it for the pups sake and if you have ANY doubts, then the pup should go back to the breeder.

Ok so say I didn't have to work...
What about when I need to leave the house to go shopping etc and he cries? Is that wrong too?
I can't be there 24/7 every day.

And to the people comparing it to a new born baby. You get a years maternity leave for a child and no such thing for a puppy. Maybe a weeks holiday which I have already taken

You get a years maternity leave for a child and no such thing for a puppy. Maybe a weeks holiday which I have already taken

And would you have a baby if you had to leave it alone after just one week, or would you make your own arrangements for somebody to look after it? It really is very similar. These days there are plenty of businesses that can help -dog daycare, dog walkers etc.

> I can't be there 24/7 every day.

Of course you can't - who can, BUT much as for us had I not been able to stop working full time, there would have been NO DOG, if you play with your puppy, take him outside to empty and bring him back to his crate, which should have been set up in your living area, top and sides covered and the door open so your puppy started to get used to going in there to take a nap, with a few little biscuits, if you have timed it right, after a bit of complaining, he should settle down and take a nap - THAT is when you get other things done.   With our young puppy, when she was 9 weeks, we did this, rushed out for some necessities and back asap, fearing we'd hear her down the driveway - not at all, she was still fast asleep!!!    Puppies sleep a lot and it's all about timing re getting other things done.

But this doesn't including working full time, for me.   I truly wish breeders would ask more questions about what's planned for the puppies they produce, and home.   All this could/should be avoided.    Fact is, and I know first-hand what a racket a screaming GSD makes, this wasn't ever going to work with you out all day.    At best, you should have arranged to have somebody come in with him.   No puppy should be in a crate during the daytime for much over 2 hours - and overnight you'd have to get up at around 3 am for now, to take him out - no puppy can usually hold from say 11 pm until 6 am without a huge need to empty.   Adults shouldn't be in a crate for more than 4 hours on a regular basis either.

At least if you only popped out for shopping etc., that shouldn't mean he's yelling for long!!

I think it's a pity, but if this has made you think that perhaps you have made a mistake, take him back to his breeder asap, before he's really traumatised.   Puppies don't forget early trauma.

" He wasn't from a breeder that would take him back just someone who's dog had puppies. "

Definition of 'a breeder' - as above!!!

I am not stupid so stop treating me as such.
I know what a 'breeder' is and I think you understand what I mean when I say they arnt 'breeders'
I mean they don't regularly do it and didn't plan to do it and had no knowledge of how to do it.
Not a reputable breeder.

You're all treating me like I'm stupid I'm only asking for some suggestions of what that people have done.

I can have someone look after him in the day but I feel that would be defeating the object of getting him used to being alone.

We have the crate in the bedroom as that is what I've read on many forums to do so he gets used to it as you are there next to him.

It is impossible to leave him downstairs at night due to the noise and it is impossible to ignore.

People on a GSD site have been more helpful and many of them leave theirs alone for 8,9 even 10 hours a day no problem.

I just wanted advice on how to do this best for the pup as all dogs especially GSDs can be trained to do anything especially being alone for several hours.

Of course I would get someone to look after my child but this is at the end of the day a dog not a baby and he has to fit in with my life as much as I have to fit into his.

All you're attacking comments are not helpful you're all so judgemental. You'd rather take a dog away from someone rather than help that be a good dog owner. Which I am as I have had dogs before.

We've had our GSD puppy

Look, there is an imprinting process with all domestic dogs, it takes until 16 weeks of age, anything which imprints in that timeline can & does affect for the rest of its life.

Maybe you should think on that timescale in any more decision making you might act on.
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> Ok so say I didn't have to work...
> What about when I need to leave the house to go shopping etc and he cries? Is that wrong too?
> I can't be there 24/7 every day.

> You'd rather take a dog away from someone rather than help that be a good dog owner.

Please read my above post.  I have explained how to go about doing separation training with your pup, so he can cope with being left for increasing amounts of time.  You have a baby who until 4 days ago, spent 24/7 in the company of his mother and littermates, and suddenly is being left for (assuming you work a full day) hours at a time.  It is a massive shock to him, and it is up to you to teach him how to cope with it.

People have suggested dog walkers, daycare etc.  You are getting advice on how to deal with the situation as it is, however if either you or pup cannot cope with it then yes, returning to the breeder is the fairest thing to do.

Incidentally having had 5 dogs previously does not mean this pup will be the same or that you will find it as straightforward - as you're already finding out - and a poorly bred GSD is likely to be harder.  I have owned 14 dogs altogether, I am a behaviourist by trade and I am still struggling with my most recent addition.  Some dogs really throw you in at the deep end, no matter the experience you've got.

>People on a GSD site have been more helpful and many of them leave theirs alone for 8,9 even 10 hours a day no problem.

The ideal place to get advice for someone in your position I'd say.
As I explained before ..you can hardly expect reputable breeders, who wouldn't sell a puppy into your situation...to give you encouragement to leave a tiny puppy alone most of the day.

Of course we will advise you to rethink this whole situation ...for the puppy's sake.

You obviously didn't read my previous post where I gave you an example how my niece and her husband who both work full time, were able to have a puppy from 8 weeks, planned that they would have holidays for two weeks and then made sure the puppy wasn't left too long during the day with a dog walker coming in twice a day and my niece coming home at lunch time. The puppy is currently four months old and settled. He knows his routine and is happy with it.
If you are getting adequate help from the GSD forum, why are you here asking for help? Frankly I think leaving a dog alone for up to 10-12 hours a day without someone coming in to walk and toilet the dog, is not on. Your pup is not going to 'get used' to being left by not having someone come in at regular intervals during the day to relieve the poor little soul and spend some time with him.

And there's every chance he will start to entertain himself by being destructive and that won't be popular either.

> all dogs especially GSDs can be trained to do anything especially being alone for several hours. <br />

Well that's a new one on me and I have owned and bred GSD for40+ yrs. I'm afraid no decent breeder would ever sell you a puppy ,I most certainly would not. Poor baby is being left for hours at a time, it's no wonder he is screaming. Please rehome him before it gets any worse. If you won't rehome then you need to have someone look after him when you are out all day.

You've had lots of advice on how to deal with the situation but I get the feeling it's not what you wanted to hear.

No one on this forum is going to say leave him as he is and in two weeks he'll be over it and quite happy to be on his own....

> So no one ever had German shepherds and goes to work then?? Everyone with puppies is unemployed??

You obviously didn't read my reply.

There are many ways of making dog ownership and working compatible, but it means providing care for the puppy/dog when you are not there. 

No dog should be expected to spend more than 4 hours on it's own regularly purely for it's health, as I said can you go without peeing all day from leaving for work to returning home?

Then there is the isolation, loneliness and boredom.  Your talking about a working breed.

It's not for no reason that the classic reason for dogs going in to rescue is lack of time (read dog bored, lonely, and destructive causing nuisance), the age is usually older pups and adolescents under two, as that is when they no longer need as much sleep and need training and stimulation.

I have sold pups to people who work, but only when I know that they have solid care arrangements for the pups.

often it is doggy daycare, paid dog walkers, an older relative unable to have a dog of their own any more, or people who have partners working different shifts.

Older dogs sometimes will cope with someone coming in Lunch time for a wee break and a cuddle.

As someone said if you had a child and worked you'd have to make care arrangements and pay fro them, a dog is not too different, except more adaptable and tolerant.

When I used to breed collies I would never sell to someone who worked full time, part time OK as like going to the shops but the first 6 months is important I blame the breeder for selling it to you. I suggest you take it back and wait until your circumstances change or get an older dog even then you need to be able to pop in lunch time to let it out and ideally take it out before and after you go to work.

Hello again
Yes, people do work when owning dogs and most rescue centres ask that people do not work ft when adopting a dog/puppy. I have worked pt with a puppy and been home all the time with a puppy. I with my current boy built up time I could leave him just walking to end of road and waiting 5 minutes. Going back in praising puppy and taking him out,playing with him then settled him on his pet bed as I did chores around house away from him but he knew I was there! Yes sometimes he whined if I went to the toilet however a reassuring voice and a "Stay" with the same toy did the job repetitive over the days and weeks but it did click eventually.A reward with cuddles and sometimes a special treat worked too..We also found a Kong lined with a bit of peanut butter with a few biscuits also kept him busy if I was out or say ironing etc! It didn't happen overnight took a few months and now he can be left 3-4 hours without whining or being destructive. Most of the time he comes with us everywhere save for a restaurant visit with friends,or appointments etc he stays behind.
It's hard work yes and I don't wish to sound as if I'm having a go at you. I re read your first post and it came across to me as;
I think possibly it's tiredness and a oh what have I done? Combined with a am I doing it right? It should be happening sooner,Help me post.

I still think it's very early days and patience and a routine will come in time. Have you asked the breeder for advice? Joined a socialising puppy class? A lot of vets run them now.
It's hard to say ok it's a mistake and I'm not ready for a dog and rehome puppy it's just as hard to just carry on and eventually disliking the puppy. I'd say have a think,a fresh air walk re evaluate what you wish and can cope with. I wish you the best whichever route you follow
I'm happy for you to pm me if you prefer.

Bit puzzled, you say you have had him only 4days and that you have taken a week off so are you still at home with him? When I owned GSDs I found they were a'Wingy' breed, and need a good deal of company and work to keep them busy. So my advice would be lots of play and don't forget he is a baby and if you want him to grow into a balanced adult you will have to put the time in now, sorry but there is no other way. You ask for advice and mine would be put in the time and work in now, it is not the pups fault he is a untrained baby dog, the training and welfare is your job.

October last year I took in an almost 9 week old Malinois pup, not bred by me (so not GSD but BSD and not too different) from an owner who had believed he could work full time and leave his pup. It took him 48 hrs to realise it would not work. I got the pup after a week and by then he already had such severe separation anxiety that it took us months to even be able to leave the room without him screaming. He's absolutely fine now and can be left but had he stayed in his original home I doubt very much that he would be. All respect to his first owner who realised he needed a different type of home.

I can have someone look after him in the day but I feel that would be defeating the object of getting him used to being alone.

(So, so hoping this is just a WUM, but taking the post seriously)

So no return to 'breeder' then, best solution drifts off into the distance.........

Probably my age..........but my patience is growing very thin, this unfortunately is the owner of many a pup today. As a reputablebreeder and someone who has raised my brothers GSD's from puppies, it is quite correct that you would not have got within 10 miles of one of my pups,   your ideas in how to rear a pup are so outlandish, the trouble is you are asking us to help you quiet the poor little mite, be complicit to your rearing ideas, that is why you have come on here? Alas you cannot take on board any real advice or learn anything from us as you will continue to leave your pup all day whilst you go to full time work, do you really think any of us wish to help you to do something like that?

Beggars belief.

Puppies (nothing to do with the breed) are not supposed to be alone, they grow into sound, social animals of good temperament through their experiences as puppies, they are pack animals as pups they live with siblings who are then replaced by their humans who they bond with and learn from, what on earth are you teaching him? That during the day he lives in solitude, what can he do with himself all day, what can he learn?  How can he feel safe, happy and content, what kind of adult will he grow to be with having such a lonely 'childhood.'

And then when you go to bed he is in a crate all night until 6am........prison sounds far better at least prisoners have inmates to connect with and talk to. Sorry but I am so disgusted with the life you are giving this pup, from bad breeder to this?????????

Why do YOU think he cries and howls all day and night?????????   You think he's being a nuscience, and a naughty pup, no he's LONELY, SCARED, CRYING for his siblings, his mother, just someone to play with him and give him a hug, someone to play train with him, teach him through praise and reward how to act, how to accept boundaries, toilet train him etc....HE WANTS ATTENTION!

And you are acting like the injured party...........your pup is the injured party, put HIM first! You are supposed to be taking the place of his mother and siblings, you are supposed to be there for him, so that he grows into a sound dog of good temperament, this is lazy parenting to the hilt........and you want us to help you? There is no way to help this kind of rearing, good luck to him protesting at his loudest, because you will not be giving him what he wants and needs, and there is really nothing we can give you as you will continue to go out to work all day and leave him..............eventually he'll stop his 'will' will break........and you will get your silence, and he will be oh so pleased to see you on your return.......poor pup.............

What do you wish to learn from us?

Excellent posts, poor poor pup

I've worked full time, mostly, whilst having dogs over the last 40 years - 10 dogs so far - 2 still with me.  1/2 of these pups, 1/2 rescue.
1 of my rescues was a GSD X collie with severe separation anxiety - so much so she was due to be pts as she'd already had 5 homes at just 2!
I was a single parent with 2 young boys and went to college for an afternoon and evening 1 day a week.  Despite my financial constraints, I put her in Kennels overnight on those days, I had no-one to help and there wasn't the dog care there is today.  Eventually, as her trust in me (us) built up, with lots of exercise, training, attention, play, cuddles.... I could leave her anywhere, anytime BECAUSE we'd got an established, trusting relationship.  It takes a lot of work to get there.
I now have a 9 year old and a 7 month pup. Having an older dog used to/settled with being left makes a huge difference. Most of the time I've had the pup I've worked 4 days/week, sometimes less and I took  1/2 days off for a couple of weeks.
I've managed him by getting up early enough to spend at least an hour of 'quality' time ie interacting with him in the morning  not just seeing to him, (as well as the getting up in the night), home at lunch for about 50 minutes of the same, work evenings are for the dogs.
He's a small dog. I have a very large cage with his bed, water, safe toys, puppy pads (not for a while now)that acts as a playpen.  For safe play when I'm busy at home, and to give my older girl a break, I bought some wire mesh panels to split up the lounge- I don't need them now. As your pup gets older and bigger they could give your larger pup room to play, there's some really good solid pens you can buy to keep him, and your things, safe.
There's also things like wrapping up hot water bottles and alarm clock (being very careful to keep him safe) giving him a T-shirt with your smell on it, (has he got something with his mum's and siblings scent on too?)

I've got to say I doubt many breeders would pick me as a good prospective puppy owner, but, I believe my dogs have been happy, overall. I don't mind them following me to the loo, or whatever.
It's got to be give and take - the more you give, early on, they repay a thousand fold - ie - you take.
A further note on what your expectations of the breed seem to be - they are working dogs who can be exceptionally well behaved - this is gained through both early and constant, appropriate treatment.>

Sorry for the long post - I just feel for the pup, & owner to an extent.  I know what it's like to not be a good enough owner. I can't live without a dog, or 2 or 3.  I accept that, as I'm not the best owner, my dogs won't be the best (except in my eyes). I don't even know what being too attached means - though I may be too attached to mine.

Thank you you have been very helpful!

I have been to the vets today to get his first jab and she said she had always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.
Same with at night in a crate.
She said I am doing everything right.
She also runs the puppy classes there.
He gets let out at lunch time and played with and fed and taken to the toilet.
He is only left for 3. Taken out at lunch. And the another 3 hours.

The vet said puppies are extremely adaptable and he is coming to no harm.
He needs to learn time in the crate is down time at night and my owners sleep upstairs and I sleep down here.

always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.

Sorry but isn't that what babies in Romanian orphanages do too?

Added to say
Just because she's a vet doesn't mean she's a good owner/behaviourist.  If your pup is driving you mad after only 4 days how are you going to cope in 6 months?  I see so many of that age advertised due to owner not having time (or unwilling to take the consequences) These things don't magically sort themselves out.

she said.................................I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.

Behave yourself Kdale3 or you'll never go to heaven
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I ve worked full time and had gsd but she was never left for hours alone or in a crate for hours except at night when we woudl wake and take her out as needed. I hate to think about the other gsd s from the other sites you mention that are left for hours even uo o 10.its down right cruel  Anyone doing this is not suited to having a dog unless they can adjust  their lifestyl . Even you vet is either not explaining things properly  or has been misunderstood.i do hope u either rake he rack or tale some of the good advice given above.

> I have been to the vets today to get his first jab and she said she had always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.
> Same with at night in a crate.

Your vet is a VET.  She is not a behaviourist or a trainer.  Many of us on here are, myself included and what your vet is telling you is WRONG.  He is crying because of everything Carrington has said: he is lonely, he is scared, and he is alone and he is trying desperately to get somebody, anybody, to come and reassure him and help him feel safe.  He has been taken away from EVERYTHING HE KNOWS just 4 DAYS ago.  His entire world has been turned upside-down and the very last thing he needs is to be ignored.  Tell your vet that if she wants to give out behavioural advice, then she needs to study up to date behavioural science and training techniques because she is way, way behind.

Recognise that you are caring for a dependant infant, not an adult dog, and start treating him as such, and start TRAINING him to learn to cope alone - in simply ignoring his anxieties you will never get on top of them.  Some puppies - more and more these days IME, as more are bred with no regard to genetics or temperament - are NOT extremely adaptable.  Many need a great deal of input to help them grow into sound adults and many who do not get that end up in rescue at a young age because their owners haven't put the work in and then cannot cope when the adolescent hormones hit and everything gets 100 times worse.

Please, take on board the advice you are being given on here by experience owners, breeders, trainers and behaviourists and help this pup before he is too far gone for you to do anything with.

> I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.

Wicked.  You do realise that you could be prosecuted under the Animal Welfare Act?

> I have been to the vets today to get his first jab and she said she had always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn

> She said I am doing everything right

What utter tosh!

You are doing everything wrong and my heart aches for the misery you are putting your poor puppy through. Any vet that thinks you are doing it right is no vet that I would deal with.

> I have been to the vets today to get his first jab and she said she had always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.

With respect, vets get very little training in behaviour, and things have changed a great deal in the last 20 or so years, with the advent of kinder methods of training.

She said I am doing everything right

Maybe you should do an audition for BGT, I'm sure Simon would give you a standing ovation.
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House training....how it works....
Pup wakes, you take him out..he pees..you praise.
Pups has his 4 meals a day...each time you take him out...he poops...you praise.
He learns where OUT is...he makes his way to OUT....he asks to go OUT....who is going to hear him?

always had GSDs and worked and I just have to let him cry it out and ignore it and eventually he will learn.

Sorry but isn't that what babies in Romanian orphanages do too?

Yes, and then are medically diagnosed with "institutionalised autism" with behavioural problems which last well into their teens.

Just found the same OP on German Shepherds.com and the same advice is being offered there. At what point will it sink in do you think?

My point exactly, Honeymoon beam.

Exactly same post? Did they advise anything different at all?  Why would a WUM? post  on both sites?

"People on a GSD site have been more helpful and many of them leave theirs alone for 8,9 even 10 hours a day no problem."

If you find the answers you prefer on another website, so be it.   But for me, leaving any dog, let alone a young puppy, alone for up to 10 hours a day, is simply cruelty.   I wonder whether there really is 'no problem' with these dogs.  

I don't agree necessarily with everything said on this website, but clearly there is a concensus re leaving puppies especially alone, for hours.   So it's worth taking onboard - and after all you had concerns about whether you'd done the right thing for this particular puppy and in that, I still say you would probably be best returning it to the breeder rather than risk ruining him.