Ok I'm clutching at straws here.

My girl was mated once on 24th August (travelled to France), progesterone levels were 40 the day after (25th)

All signs were looking good that she had taken. Vulva still swollen, milky discharge on day 10-13. Teats are larger, some breast tissue there. Certainly is looking fuller in the last few days and has been much more keen on food than usual. Excessive grooming of her undercarriage. And just general "pregnancy" type behaviour.

Today is day 28 from mating (possible Day 29 from ovulation) so sheep scanner was here today and no pups :( do I rescan her in a week or so even though I know when she ovulated? How likely is it that she is any less than Day 26. And i'm pretty sure they can tell from about day 24 but prefer to scan after 28 days.

A very sad Kelly tonight :(

I scanned my girl on day 26 no puppies,  scanned a week later and had a little singleton x

Re-scanned today - PUPPIES!!! yay. Couldn't get a head count so will have to be more patient and do another scan in a couple weeks

But I'm confuzzled. I know her ovulation date and there was only one mating but the scanner says she is not as far along as I think. How is that possible? He suggests she is 23 days max.

Sperm can live up to a week. Good news :)

Yeah I know but she ovulated the day before the mating. I progesterone tested her. So thats why I'm confused about the dates

Perhaps the scanner is wrong, or the litter larger so pups smaller, be interesting to see if she whelps 63 days from the ovulation date.

Yeah I'm not entirely convinced about the experience of the scanner so time shall indeed tell all.

She is from an 11, as is her dam....so large litter is a distinct possibility

Our girl was progesterone tested in July, her first (and only test on a Wednesday) suggested that she had ovulated the day prior to the test.  We were told to mate that day, as we had only got the results late lunch time and had a trip of several hours ahead we decided to wait until the following day (Friday).  We arrived and our girl didn't want to know even though the dog was keen, and experienced.  We were so confused that we rang to lab to check, and were informed that all was ok and it was just our girl.  After quite some time, we decided to leave it - we were so upset and planned to try again the following day.  We left it until the evening, and did get a mating although our girl took some persuasion. 

She was scanned on day 30, showing she was indeed in whelp with a good sized litter indicating that indeed the progesterone results were spot on.  We were interested to see when she would whelp, day 63 being a Tuesday if progesterone results accurate anticipating ovulation.  She whelped on a Thursday/Friday, maybe she ovulated later than indicated??

As I've made known many times, here - scanning ....... inaccurate and only says yes or no, at the time of the scan.  X-ray around the due date is WAY more reliable.   Again () unless there is a valid reason to be scanning, why not wait?   I'm aware that people have busy lives these days, and a 'need to know' but if it's unreliable, what's the point?

If I planned a litter, I curtailed my other activities to concentrate on the next generation.   As you'll see puppies moving around by about week 7, isn't that good enough?

Now that is very interesting. I hadn't consider lab error either. all text and research says bitches ovulate once the progesterone hits that level. But I guess its a possibility.

The reason I scan (and I'm sure its the same for others) is so I know that she is pregnant and can guage how far along she is so I have the correct dates booked off from work.

My breed is also numerically tiny and I mean tiny. So again important for me to let people know that are on my waiting list where they stand. It's all about preparation. I can't just wait and see.

On the xray front..she is a pastoral breed and very few Vets if any will sedate to xray a pregnant bitch. Plus if she isn't as far along as I anticipated then an xray too early on could cause huge issues

They do whelp +/- a day so sounds like she whelped bang on.

I'm skeptical about progesterone testing, especially using it too prescriptively. Remember to take the results as a guide - fertilisation can occur some time after ovulation. Also to use the 63 days as guide, you'll have to rely on your and your dogs instincts to know when the time is coming. Well that and your rectal thermometer :)

Yes absolutely.

All research shows that the upper 90% of dogs whelp 63 +/- 1 day from ovulation determined by progesterone levels which accounts why some bitches whelp at day 58/59 from mating as ovulation occurred several days earlier. And like wise when dogs go to day 69/70 due to ovulation occurring much later than the mating.

I'll get her rescanned after day 42 (well what I count as day 42) as I'd expect to see signs of calcification and that will give me a good indicator that she is running "to schedule" haha.

I am now going to see what I can find out about litter size and how that may affect the "size" of the foetuses and their subsequent detection.

> On the xray front..she is a pastoral breed and very few Vets if any will sedate to xray a pregnant bitch

I guess I'm going by recollection of what happened out in Canada where no sedation/anaesthetic was given - I was always with mine, wearing a lead apron, so they lay quiet while being x-rayed.   Those litters we had back here in the UK, didn't get into x-ray being needed.

I scanned because it's useful to have more than 10 days notice to book the time off work and buy in anything I need, it being 5 years since my last litter. Also my older girl only had 1 and 2 in her 2 litters, so she never looked pregnant and I couldn't feel puppies moving. It was only the palpation by vet or the scan, and the fact that I could hear a heartbeat with a stethescope that gave it away!

> I scanned because it's useful to have more than 10 days notice to book the time off work

I guess I was maybe lucky not to be working when we did our litters.   But isn't it possible to book the time off (how long because we were with our puppies more or less 24/7 until they went to their new homes) and if no puppies appear, enjoy the time off as a holiday, doing other things?

I'm afraid nothing will persuade me that scanning is needed other than to confirm a mis-mating, or not and as we had no litters that weren't planned .......

So the plot thickens....3rd scan to get a head count. NO PUPPIES!

Argh I am so utterly devastated. 2200 miles round trip and nothing *sigh* I think the 2nd scan was a false positive as he isn't my usual scanner and is no where near experienced enough for my liking.

Very disappointed.

this is the video of the 2nd scan....well as best I could get trying to hold her head away from kissing him lol.

interested to know if anyone actually "sees" anything. This was taken Day 32 from mating (33 from ovulation)

https://youtu.be/XO9uGF97M28

The second scan may have been right and she has since absorbed, more likely if the development seemed not as advanced as mating info.

Or the first and this last could be wrong and she is still in whelp.

I think now only time will tell.

When is her due date?

I can only see the bladder keep coming in to view on this scan, no puppies.
Not an expert but can always see puppies on scan, and cant here.
Sorry

From the second scan she did appear to have viable sacs with contents...I would wait until day 57/58 and X-ray.

Hi you say the scan was on day 32 but the chap in the video says "it's far too early to tell" I have had scans done earlier than day 32 and seen signs of pups, think you might be right about his inexperience

Best of luck

At day 27 my ultrasonographer can visualise beating hearts and even give me an ECG trace of them!
I also say your scanning operative isn't very skilled.

Well I really dunno what to think of it all. She is in my mind still acting "pregnant" she is not a big eater at all and is hard to keep the weight on. Yet yesterday she ate her normal scoop and a half of kibble in the morning, then in the afternoon I gave her some chicken drumsticks, they were a day out of date but rather than throw them out I thought I'd offer them to her, normally she'd eat 4 or 5 and then try and hide the rest for later...but alas she ate all 11 of them (1.2kg worth) and then an hour later when I was feeding the other dogs she came mooching for more so I gave her another scoop and a half which she ate as well.

Today the same..kibble this morning and out of curiosity I gave her some of that meat in tubes (they love it!) I put down 2 of them 1.6kg worth and she scoffed it all! So I am now letting myself ponder at the possibility of a singleton or 2. She is a very big, long girl so could easily hide them. So in the interest of keeping my own sanity I'm off to another scanner who contacted me via facebook to say she would happily scan her and spend a good while looking too. She is Day 41 today so if there is anything there it will have some bones so I don't think it would be possible to miss!

And to top it all off, I have already accepted a male puppy from the breeder in lieu of a repeat mating ha. So that will be interesting if she turns out to be carrying 1 or 2....but if it's a girl *oh please almighty god that I don't believe in* let it be a girl ha then I'll be a very happy chappy, if not a tad skint lol.

Everything crossed for you xx

It's a definite no, but I'm happy with that as I'd rather not have a teeny tiny litter lol. I will import this wee boy and try again with Tala when I have saved up some more pennies!

So sorry!
This dog breeding lark can sometimes be soul destroying..chin up!

It sure can. What's meant to be will be :)

Sorry to see she didn't take, what a night mare being told no then yes, how frustrating. Just had my girl scanned also and she hasn't taken. I also went from ovulation testing and found it a complete nightmare. My girl is also acting pregnant? Just false hope I guess ha ha. But not all is lost means I haven't wasted all that money on show entries I guess! Good luck with your new baby