I would like to hear from people who exhibit their dogs using a snake chain. I have medium-sized gundogs and the youngest boy, aged 10 months, is a handful--a bit too much jumping about on the move, to say the least! Will a snake chain be more effective in checking him on the move than the thin leather slip lead I use now? All advice welcome and thank you in anticipation of replies :-)

Snake chain might be a little heavier and the novelty of it might distract him from acting the fool at first, but I'd say it's just a matter of training and waiting for him to mature, over what tool you use? Nice to have a bit of character, hehe.

I would rather have a dog that way than one that is nervous. That will calm as he matures and any judge with any sense can see through it. It wouldn't worry me when I judge. Just do a bit of training when out and you could always go to champion shows to train under show conditions.

The other thing you can do is hid a piece of treat in your hand with the end of the lead let him know it's there discreetly and move with your hand at nose level so he is following it when you are running round the ring. I hope that makes sense I am better as showing people than explaining.

> I would rather have a dog that way than one that is nervous. That will calm as he matures and any judge with any sense can see through it. It wouldn't worry me when I judge. Just do a bit of training when out and you could always go to champion shows to train under show conditions.

So would I and I so agree - judges should make allowances, within reason, when judging puppy classes!!   Should and do - not always the case however and it's frustrating to be throwing away chances with a dog who plays up - quality should prevail though and playing up would normally only matter if there were two of equal quality in the class.

I used a fine chain with my Bassets because I think it looks better than having a heavy chain round their necks.   As long as you are able to have control (the dog can't take off!).   With a chain the 'click, even with a fine chain, should be better than a leather slip collar I'd suggest.   I have also used a fine martingale with my hounds.   But end of the day, practice, practice and more practice.   More Ringcraft classes, and yes, going to some fun matches to give him experience.   And coming from a food-motivated breed TREATS to hand.

Tectona, he has character in spades, but he is also very willful and naughty! The weekend before last he took RBPIS at an open show, last weekend at Darlington he was such a goat in the ring that while he stood beautifully he was a total disgrace on the move--yet 15 minutes before going in the ring he presented himself perfectly.

I don't feed my dogs before a show--they get a special lunch when they are done. Going back over the way he behaves, I suspect he was hungry and wasn't going to stand for it a minute longer. All that diving about might well have been because he could smell the treats in my pocket.

We were at a show the next day so I dispensed with the habit of a lifetime and gave him a breakfast of chicken wings (on the basis that he loves them and they'd take longer to digest). He was absolutely fine in the breed class in the morning, and then of course by the end of the day he was up to his old tricks.

So I think the change of lead might help, but now I think the answer might be no more treats in the ring, but a good sized breakfast before asking him to work might be a good idea....any thoughts?

MamaBas and peppe, treats in hand send this boy into orbit! Even the smell of them in a pocket was enough to send him doolally. I have to say if I were judging I would always give the exhibitor another chance, but we weren't offered that. On reflection though, probably a good thing, because then he would have been challenging his litter sister for BPIB...nightmare :-p

peppe, this worked fine when he was a young puppy at ringcraft, but get this boy in front of a big audience and he can be a demon! He is an exciting little boy to work with and I think he could have a big future...if he doesn't push me into an early grave first

I always liked the look of them but worried they wouldn't be strong enough if one of my Boxers bounced as Boxers do

I agree it is constant training but fun so they don't go the other way and get fed up and bored. I used to do champion shows or as they used to be known exemption shows even when they were 5 months saying they were 6 months the earlier the better and if they make a fool of themselves it doesn't matter so much. Try doing 5 minutes a day when over a field. I know you say he plays up in front of a crowd which is probably making you edgy as well try and stay calm do you run him round before you go into the ring to take some of that excess out of him.

peppe, I give him 10-15 minutes of practice/exercise before going in the ring. The biggest success as far as he is concerned is getting a big breakfast!

I tried a figure of eight lead on him at the weekend to get him to walk sensibly--he is the only dog I've ever known who just would not walk with it, he clawed at his face, throwing himself all over the place, and even managed to scratch his palate by sticking his foot in his mouth

Jay he sounds a lot like my boy, just a little more manic haha. He is a slow to mature gundog breed too and I've totally changed tactics with him over the past few shows and he's been a different dog. Mine tends to act the fool when I try to stack him though, he thinks he's hilarious.

He is the ultimate exhibitionist in life in general. I stopped baiting him in the ring and started being a little more firm with him- I am a clicker trainer in everything I do so it was hard for me. I don't mean I've been nasty to him, but I have quietly but firmly told him to stop pratting around whilst I try to stack him. Not dissimilar to your idea of checking him, I guess. I know I've said this to you before as well but hanging around the ring before we go in has helped him as it takes the edge off the excitement of seeing everyone. It just depends on the dog as to what will work; if you try to quash him he might get more frustrated and play up more. It's getting the balance right. I wouldn't worry at all at his age.

My lad has confidence coming out the wazoo so it didn't upset him to be told to keep still/stay on 4 legs. But he is 3 years old In a pup I would/did personally quite like it and would rather have that than making the ring a super serious place at that age.

I have a few critiques now saying things like 'super temperament' 'outgoing nature' 'delightful temperament' which mean a lot to me, so go with it and as he settles you will probably be all the better off for his happy, confident nature. Practise and patience.

thanks Tectona! I have had him ringside to meet all the other dogs, which he likes; I've made sure he is on his own at some shows, so he can't try and impress the family with his looniness.

He is very good on the stack--to be fair, he is steadier than the 6 year old I show. It's just on the move--he's like those springers you see pogoing in the cornfields, except we aren't in a cornfield :-p

We will keep at it...I was going to take his mother, but now I think I will take him to a handling masterclass with Eric Salas next month! Let's see what he makes of my boy!

I don't show my dog, but have entered a few fun shows just for the ....... er well, the fun of it!

When she was younger it was like trying to take a kite on a piece of string round the ring. She's also a gundog breed brim full of confidence and she certainly gets herself noticed, no plodding obediently for her if she could jump about like a loony, then that's what she did. Using a treat made her worse.

She's now just over two years and a lot calmer, but still acts like a prancing pony when she spots another dog. Hard work, but a great character.

Another thing that comes to mind which I had with one my aussies was the food. What do you feed him on? One of mine was very hypy to say the least and I was given advice which I tried and certainly helped. Feed raw tripe and wholemeal dog biscuit for a week and nothing else if it is the food you will see a definitely change. I was feeding Royal Canin and there is a lot of others who have no problem but it wasn't protein level but something in the food similar to children. We notice a difference so changed his food he is now 6yrs old and a lovely dog to live with. He can't have James Well belove either as made by the same company. We nearly gave him back to the breeder as I had never had a dog even when I was breeding collies like this and I used to have 3 studs dogs and 4 bitches living together saying that we never used to use complete food on the collies I used to feed Tripe, biscuit SA37 and Bonemeal and had some beautiful sound dogs not like to some today I think some of the food as a lot to answer for.

peppe, all my dogs are mainly raw fed--the exception being poached fish (to get the bones out). They very occasionally get a gluten free mixer biscuit, but I am pretty sure his behaviour is not related to the quality of his diet. Over the last few days I am more convinced he just doesn't do hungry! His behaviour in the ring on Monday was much improved for being topped up with chicken wings.

Someone with a pointer I'm sure when their pup was jumping about on the move held the lead right down low when they moved them at class. Might be worth a try if you haven't allready.

I swapped my girl from a half check to a snake chain our breeder gave me. Took her a good while to be able to walk on it propperly but she is fine now.