Hi my JRT X pup is 7 1/2 months and I can't make my mind up about insurance.  I have been reading posts on here and a couple of Facebook sites.  It seems Petplan & Animal Friends get the best reports.  P,plan way more expensive though not easy to tell the equivalents.
Is a lifetime cover  best?
Would £4000/condition/year be enough? Should I go for a higher per condition amount rather than the lifetime?
AF is 16/month for this, then 32/month for £6000.  P/plan 37/month for £7000

How much does vet care cost?  He's going to be about 8-9 kg I think.

I know if I had plenty of money I would just pay but I have to justify every penny.

I spend a lot, both time and money. on feeding them good quality raw and appropriate supplements, finding out about (dangers, natural treatment and prevention of) vaccines, wormers and flea treatment not to mention the ovarian and mammary tumours my older girl has (10 months since discovery and still going strong

I'm going to be doing wormcounts and Vaccicheck too.

Do I need insurance if I'm doing whatever I can to keep them healthy?

Should I just have 3rd party?

Sorry for this, probably garbled, long post.
I just don't know what to do.

For me in my opyion, if your going down the insurance route I'd go for a life time one where the amount refreshes each year rather than a limited one as once you reach that limit that's it your out of luck.
I was with animal friends on the £4000 per condition per year lifetime one. Had no problems when I needed to use them, but after the 2nd year the premiums started realy increasing, year one was something like £129 for the year and I had a claim that year, second hear only went up by a small amount. Year three was over £200 and the quote for the third year was over £300. Due to the large increase and that I had plans to breed my girl I swapped to more than.

Some people will put away some money each month into a saving account for vet bills.

So far in my girls 4 years I've only make one claim in the first year for parvo. The bill was £1600 and that's with going back for 3 days (the first day was out of hours) then being kept in for 5 nights, a scan and being opened up. So for me it's payed for its self for a for a few years. But have never needed to claim since that first year.

If you have plenty of cash in the bank then you could probably manage without insurance. The problem is you never know what is going to happen. My boy ended up with a kidney infection after a small op. He ended up in intensive care for 4 days critical kidney failure not knowing if he was going to live. That was £1300.00 on a 15 mth old dog who now has kidney damage on his medical record.

He's was/is insured with lifetime cover £12k a year so I've no worries that any problems with his kidneys in later life will be covered so long as I keep up the insurance. If he hadn't had insurance we would have had big unexpected bill and there is no way any company would ever cover him for kidney problems if I ever tried to get insurance out at a later date.

Unfortunately insurance is a gamble you may not ever need it, but I'd hate to think I didn't have to money to pay for vet and have to have him pts because I didn't take out insurance. Its a whole new ball game to have insurance if you have multiple dogs of course.

I insured all my pups on their first day home,visit to vet and then forms filled in. This way they had no existing problems listed. We have had our insurance pay out for emergency ooh treatment which then turned into 8 days on a drip,medicine etc.A very very large bill which we only paid £90 of. We have also had ear surgery paid by insurance a 400+ bill we paid 85 of it then.
Yes sometimes with bills under excess  ours is £75 currently they don't get paid. Currently paid out 2 visits in three days for our cats ear. £49 & £39 plus another app Thursday am! Could be a sedation then check membrane not ruptured. We have 4000 cover with more than and discounts as three pets covered still paying out nearly £60 a month for all 3 animals
For me if my pets got run over,caused an accident then I'm covered. I do after the age of 9 look at the costs as a lot of insurances stop some benefit pay outs and cap conditions.

Tesco,Asda and More than have good policies too

I have all of mine with Pet Plan except one that was with AXA and this one dog was let down badly by them.
PP is more costly but I doubt they will go out of business like AXA did, they are very good at paying out and my premiums have not gone up massively. My dog had cruciate problems which added up to thousands so I have the £7000 cover. Now costs have gone up £4000 doesn't go too far. Some people are lucky and don't have many claims but my gang get their premiums back plus some each year so I couldn't be without insurance.
I wouldn't dream of going to anyone but Pet Plan, but that is just my opinion and not necessarily the thinking of others.

Mine have always been with PetPlan.  When they were young, I never needed to make a claim and huffed and puffed (as most of us do ) at renewal time.  But when they needed treatment, it gave great peace of mind to know that I could say "do it" without having to count the cost, or being unable to have life-saving treatment.  With my last lad, when I sorted out his paperwork after he died and added up all the insurance premiums I'd paid and the money I'd received from claims, I found I'd actually had more back than I'd spent (including excesses).

Always take a lifetime cover.  Per condition is just that, when it's run out that's it for the rest of life, even if the condition is chronic;  Lifetime cover refills the pot every year. The problem is, we never know what is going to hit when.

Most vets won't do direct claims with AF, they are not well liked in the veterinary world because they aren't great at paying out. I've had problems with them a and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole

After adopting a dog aged 5 with a history of auto immune issues I knew she couldn't be insured...in the 10 years I had her I paid out just under 50k in vet bills, she was worth every penny and I went without so often to give her the best care...I lost her in July and have just got a new puppy, took out insurance with pet plan and have got lifetime cover and it's costing £57 per month....I have no idea about insurances etc but just couldn't take the risk of the puppy developing the illness that the other dog got so hopefully have covered all eventualities.

When we had numbers (I did insure our first hound) insurance just wasn't viable.   Once down to two I did get some quotes online, bearing in mind one of my two is not a breed known to have problems even if the other one might be, I nearly passed out.  I wanted INSURANCE not to buy the companies!!   Most of all it's the excess that finishes me - of course it's set at a level which is about the same as an average vet trip cost would be - so you end up paying the vet AND the monthly premium.   No thank you.   Happily although in the past we had a vet who'd happily allow 'stage paying' if we hit a bad patch, knowing we'd pay her before putting food on our table, we are now able to weather most big bills, if any, so frankly our money stays with us.   Insurance companies are not in the business of doing anything other than making money for themselves. 

I may yet live to regret my decision, but fact is as they get older now, whether to get involved in extensive veterinary work or not would depend on what, prognosis and whether it would be right for each hound at the time.   In other words, big bill with limited prognosis might mean pts rather than put my hound through that.

" .....it's costing £57 per month."    That's best part of almost £700 per year which, given most of your vet trips may well come to under the excess figure, is a huge sum of money to be paying out for something that might never be needed?    I suppose as your new pup ages, you can reconsider this expenditure?

Another point - why do vets seem to ask whether a new client has insurance.   Does it mean you get a better treatment if there is insurance than otherwise?   And what is the impact on vet fees, given so many people do use insurance these days?    Has this left the door open for vets to up their fees at all?

Re 3rd Party insurance - check your home insurance.   You may find this is covered that way.

I have done it both ways. For my first dog ( Thistle) I had no insurance and obviously has to pay for all her treatment. I saved the money that I would have paid and used it for vets bills. With Willow I use Petplan. I am not sure 100% how it has worked out on balance finacially but I think that it's better to have the insurance mentally! I'm not Mrs money bags but I could always afford to pay Thistle's vet bills but there was always the feeling of ' Oh another bill to pay'. If you've got the insurance you don't have to think that. On the other hand I have never insured my cats and I've never had many bills for them. However one of my cats - Treacle - had diabetes and overactive thyroid and I kept her alive for 2 good years on medication - tablets, insulin, syringes, sugar monitor equipment and it cost me an absolute fortune - over £100 a month !! You pay yer money - you take yer chance!

Animal Friends are not as good as they used to be they will try and get out of paying so be careful which you chose.

> Should I just have 3rd party?<br />

I'd love to know where you found one, as I can't and have mine with Dogs Trust membership, with always the worry that used for breeding exclusion may include hobby breeding.

> How much does vet care cost?

How long is a piece of string.  Recently:

Skin infection following a hot spot £85 for antibiotics and small tube of ointment. 

Removal of suspicious large mole type growth, no pre op bloods or histology for lump £200.

Lifetime cover is the only one worth having, change to better deal on renewal if no claims or existing conditions that would be excluded if change insurer.

Personally with a healthy breed I never Insure as could not choose who and can't do all six.

Even in a bad year have never had more claimable vet bills than Insurance premiums for one dog for a year.

I'm thinking of cancelling cats insurance. Never took the one cat to the vet bar 8nnoculations. The other several visits (2 in the last 5 days and another thursday) his insurance goes up each year. Only made one claim all the bills come under 85 pounds so it's not worth claiming a few pence.
I might be best with saving same amount I pay for cats and use that for vet's bills. I bet I've now jinxed myself and the vet will mention widening cats ear canal argh.

Earlier this year my Beagle had both cruciate go at the same time - £5000 later she is back to her old self. She has also had a skin lump removed ( was cancerous) and she has had internal infections, all in all we saved money with the insurance.

My CS on the other hand, was insured all her life with Axa but never claimed once. Axa backed out of all pet insurance a few months ago even though she had lifetime cover. The company that took over was charging ridiculous prices so I took a chance that at 13 years + she would not go through any very expensive treatment and she is without cover now. Yesterday she went into heart failure, is home now but going back for x-rays Thursday to see the size of her heart - so far the bill has reached £500 which I have to pay - sods law....  With just a pension as income I prefer to budget for insurance rather than have to face bills like this, at least that way I know where I am financially and no nasty shocks and know my dogs can have any treatment they need.

Re Axa the Financial Ombudsman is like a dog with no teeth - useless. I wish I had the money to take Axa to court.  Pet Plan is the only insurance I trust now.

Wow, how generous you all are in helping - not that I'm surprised - I've always received good advice, oponions and information on here.

AF do 3rd party for under £3/month.  I think some others do too.  I did a search on money supermarket.com for pet insurance. I can't just choose on price and stated cover - it's the small print and others experience that really matters.

I know what you mean about being a healthy breed.  I also think how you care for them counts a lot too.  I wish I'd learned about raw, Vaccicheck etc decades ago.

I hope your Cocker girl isn't too bad, SillySue..  Fingers crossed for Thursday .

I've found the reverse so far with af they have been very good with mine but I have got one of the most expensive policies  but even then I don't think the premiums are ott having compared with others.i also have three with pet plan also good except watch the small print they do now require annual oral checks to continue cover of oral health. A point easily misseds hidden en in the small print. always lifetime policies and I like at least 6k per condition per year cover having had a claim of that much  to treat a tumour

If you are looking for this party insurance only it's worth joining the dogs trust at about 12 pound or annum and includes the insurance with the membership

Think I need one of your breed brainless with three dog and two cats I still seem to claim more than I pay out each year :(

> AF do 3rd party for under £3/month.

Have you a link as no mention  of third party only policy in their dog list of Insurances.

> If you are looking for this party insurance only it's worth joining the dogs trust at about 12 pound or annum and includes the insurance with the membership

I have this, but depending who you speak to if you breed you may or not be covered.  I don't see how they can exclude retired breeders, as surely many of their rescues will be in that category, and I don't breed as a business, as business use is excluded.

The policy wording doesn't really help.

That's not helpful .I havnt taken it out as have mine through af and pet plan ..was just aware they did it and Trevor Cooper of dog law commented how it was good policy when I had to speak to him once

Today I have insured my 9 yr old Cavalier with a company called Lifetime Pet Cover for £30 per month (only £1 a day when you think about it.) With the known problems with Cavalier hearts and brains, I expected a huge premium, especially given her age. The excess is £90 plus 20%  I also insured my 12 yr. Golden with them in the summer and her premium is £35 p.m. It was £44 with L.V. and that wasn't lifetime which I think is a necessity. Both dogs have £6k cover, for life.  I can't say how they are with claims but they have  been recommended to me so, with 5 to insure and a total of £180 per month, this policy seems a good option. Personally I wouldn't touch A.F. My other 3 are with P.P.  CHOSING PET INSURANCE IS LIKE A CAREER!

For me it is peace of mind. I pay a considerable amount for my dogs premiums and it will go up again at renewal. He has had a few things wrong with him, mainly orthopaedic, and nothing breed specific as yet. If I hadn't had him insured I would be hugely out of pocket. He is an active dog and I think this has contributed to his various vet visits!

At the back of my mind is the fact that any breed, even a 'healthy' one can still have an accident.
Some insurers do accident and injury only policies. Tesco do one for £6.50 per month regardless of age.

Tesco do one for £6.50 per month regardless of age.

After being let down by a so called reputable company Axa, and many were let down by another so called reputable company Halifax when both stopped offering pet insurance leaving owners stranded, especially with older pets that would be difficult to cover elsewhere or those with ongoing problems then I would never trust any of these other companies. Tesco, M&S, More Than, etc etc. If they find that they are not making sufficient profit then they are just as likely to pull the plug and let people down again.
Halifax got clobbered by claims, financial ombudsman etc, so by the time Axa stopped they had learnt from Halifax and covered every loophole. The fact that the company taking over increased premiums by ridiculous amounts that many ( including me ) could not afford did not matter. As far as the Ombudsman is concerned - in her words - even if they charge you £1000 a day Axa has still made sure you are being offered lifetime cover. It is the fact you are being offered this cover means they have done their duty and there is no come back. The price of ongoing cover does not interest the Ombudsman in the slightest, just the fact you could have lifetime cover if you wished to have it, regardless of price.
These big companies can do what they want and get away with it, that is why I will only consider Pet Plan in the future as they ONLY look after animals and not cars, homes etc.

I'd add Agria the ones who do the Kennel Clubs own Insurance, they are the equivalent of Pet Plan in Scandinavia.

The £6.50 a month policy is only 12 month cover for accidents and injuries so the ongoing part isn't an issue. It does not cover illness.
Agree it can be worrying that some companies just stop-I am with tesco and have claims so will have to hope they do not stop otherwise my dog wi have to be uninsured as petplan won't start a policy for a dog 9+.

Between the two, I would go with Petplan.  I've been with Animal Friends for years, they are cheap yes but for a reason!  They are getting worse and worse for paying and for declining claims they should be paying.  I'm soon to go down the ombudsman route for two separate policies with them.

Whoever you go with get lifetime cover - even if your pup ends up a generally healthy dog, you never know when an accident might happen and effects of an accident can be lifelong (e.g. arthritis in a broken leg).

A little late coming in to this thread but if you are a single pet owner then insurance is the best option. Pet Plan is possibly the best but what one may cover another will not so you really need to have a read of the terms and conditions. For others with more than one pet then insurance may not be the best option. Going back some Ten plus years now Insurance on my Saint was £50 per month, following an Elbow problem with our Newfoundland his insurance also went up to £50 per month. Whilst technology has improved immensely it is only fair to say Vet bills have increased immensely and unfortunately some Vets love to play with their toys but at your expense and I am always suspicious when the first question is "Is He Insured". However that is another argument but I would strongly advise that you either take out some insurance or at least put money away for a rainy day.

With regards to Third Party Insurance: Join Dogs Trust for £25 and you receive Free Third Party Insurance and you help the Trust at the same time. "Brilliant"

My third visit  in less than 8 days to vet now bill £105 & yes another appointment given for a week Saturday (due to holiday,tomorrow  for week and being in cattery) I have just dropped  into the "oh I can claim a few pounds  back now state". Still not found the reason why ear keeps being infected or they can see into the very narrow ear canal. Years gone by if the vet said "I'd like to see him again in 3 days,you didn't  pay for that consultation now you do! £16 just to see him today and again advise see him in a week.Yes the consultations get cheaper 2nd and 3rd visits if same condition however I do feel "milked" by the vets fee's.

Unfortunately the dogs Trust Third Party has this clause, which is Open to interpretation as regards the kind of breeding most of us here do purely as part of our dog related hobby.

"as a member, all your dogs are automatically covered, provided they are all pets (this does not cover businesses or working dogs)."

I still took out membership years ago, and hope for the best, but it's not ideal, and I can't understand why the KC won't offer a Third party Only block cover, if a charity can afford to do so for such a nominal sum, really it ought to be part of the affix maintenance fee..

I contacted someone at VIP Insurance in March 2013, and they no longer do stand alone Third Party Cover, but contacted Dogs Trust and were told this was their reply:

"I've spoken with The Dog's trust this morning and provided your dogs
aren't used specifically for breeding purposes, for financial gain and you
are a paying member they will be covered.  The standard limitations on third
party liability cover would still apply regarding working dogs, show dogs
(whilst showing) and taking dogs to work etc. but if you would like further
clarification on this you can contact The Dog's Trust on 0207 837 0006."

I'm a bit wary of phoning as I do wonder if it all depends who you speak to, and I can't find the policy wording anywhere.

It is very important to be aware that pet insurance policies offer different cover limits,  different exclusions,  different benefits etc.

A couple of years ago it took me ages to find  out all the info I needed to make the best decision for my pets!   Then it occured to me that everyone else would be doing the same thing.. very time consuming.

So I put all the info on a website - The Pet Insurance Guide 2015.  Have read all the small print and summarised all the info.

On the website you will be find ratings, reviews of strengths and limitations,  customer review links, and lots of general info about pet insurance.

Hope it is of some use to you.

By the way if you are only interested in third party cover check your household contents policy.. as many of them include liability cover for pets.

> check your household contents policy

I don't have household contents insurance :(

> Still not found the reason why ear keeps being infected or they can see into the very narrow ear canal.

Ears can be absolute swines to sort out, and look clean when they are still infected.  Look at the wider picture too - he may be re-infecting himself.  I had that with my oldie when I took her on and it took a while to work out.  She was scratching her ear, licking the muck off then licking elsewhere and spreading the bugs for re-infection later on.  She had a chronic chin infection from it where she'd scratched her chin with a licked front foot and spread the bugs there.  In the end, I had to thornit both ears, all four feet and her chin every day for a couple of weeks but it did the trick and she never had a problem again!

We do clean his ears with a solution twice a week as advised by vet. He started to walk in a wonky line two weeks ago after cleaning has ear.The reason why we went back to vets. Ever since he was a kitten had trouble with this  one ear only. Vets never been able to look down ear canal too narrow or inflamed. They think it may be a polyp?  The other cat never infected  even thou they sometimes clean each other,

ears problems are often allergies skin is inflamed due to an allergen in the ears the canals close up. natural fluids can't move and clean ears properly infection developed in a nice warm cosy environment  and bang off it goes. I would look at food allergy first as it's easy to find then do allergy tests for environmental  allergens. often specialist dermatological referral is best unless your vet has a experience  with this.  I be been sorting ears for nearly two years like this and may now be almost there

Thanks again everyone for your help. There's lots to think about. I'm rubbish at making decisions

I insure all my puppies with Petplan before they go to their new homes, however I do not insure my adult dogs. Most insurance companies do not insure for breeding and with 7 dogs the premiums would be a second and third mortgage. I do have an account with my vet where I pay £50 per month. This covers all treatments dring the year as I do have healthy breeds and no excess to pay. Got to admit the payment does go up sometimes (in the event of a section maybe)  but this works well for me. I pay by standing order through the bank. Have done it this way for the last 7 years. Got to say though that my vet is very reasonable.