Hi everyone, I am now the proud new owner of an American Cocker Spaniel, she is just over 10 weeks. The vet is very concerned about the possibility of an ectopic ureter. He is treating her with antibiotics at the moment with the hopes that it a urine infection but as you can imagine this does have me really worried. The breeder says that he has no knowledge of this in the breed and I have no reason to doubt him, but I'm hoping that as she is so little and very young its more to do with age and training ( love her to bits but she doesn't seem to have a great deal of brain !!) Has anyone with this breed come across the problem of staining on the back legs, she is a black and mainly white parti so this may well make things much more obivious. Any one with any advice ?

From what I've been led to believe, an ectopic ureter is something that is apparent a couple of weeks after birth?.......something else worth considering might be an incompetent sphincter which can be treated with propalin until the muscle has strengthened........

http://www.merckmanuals.com/pethealth/dog_disorders_and_diseases/kidney_and_urinary_tract_disorders_of_dogs/congenital_and_inherited_disorders_of_the_urinary_system_in_dogs.html

Scroll down to the relevant paragraphs.

Because I'm not familiar with this condition, and wanting to find out more, I searched and found, amongst others, the link above.   It doesn't list American Cockers as one of the breeds prone to this, but you might find it is, in other countries?    My best advice is not necessarily to query what led your vet to think this (I wonder why!) and hope that it is 'just' either a UTI, or perhaps an immature bladder problem, given she is only 10 weeks.   I would say we bought in a Basset puppy at 8 weeks, she from day one, she was peeing for England.   So much so that when I took her in 48 hours after coming to us, for her first health check, I took a sample of her urine with me and sure enough, it came back showing there was an infection going on.  She was put on antibiotics but didn't respond as hoped.   After the weekend, I took her back and her urine was still not right.   At that point my then vet (I've since switched, but not because of this) started talking about the possibility of her having bladder stones (at 8 weeks - yoiks).   I phoned her breeder and said I was bringing her back for her to sort out (after nursing the final two hounds of my own bloodline through cancer to the end, I wasn't up to sorting out this puppy who cost me a ton as it was).   Her breeder threw a fit and slapped my money back at me.  Not what I expected and after being so happy to put the previous year or so behind me and move on, it was heartbreaking.   Interestingly her vet suggested all the remaining puppies she had were 'the same'. Hum.   And that little girl went to two more homes after mine before she apparently landed (I saw the KCSB Records to find out that).

If you bought from a reputable breeder, I'd expect him to suggest you bring your puppy back for his vet to take a look - his vet should know the breed at least.

ps   The pup I bought to replace the one I had to take back actually had yellow back legs and tail (he's an open tricolour with lots of white) but he'd been in a kennel situation.   An appropriate shampoo improved that quickly.

I know of someone who had a female pup with this condition.

Unfortunately I can offer no good news. It was very expensive to diagnose, it was even more expensive for the surgery itself and the surgery did not change the incontinence issue (only 50%-75% success rate I believe).

She was left with a puppy that could not be toilet trained, leaked urine almost constantly and had issues with infections throughout her life.

Ectopic Ureter's are usually questioned when a female puppy under age one year presents at the vets with the following:

*Urine leaking or dribbling at times but normal urination at other times.

*Licking of the genital area. Often urine leakage has caused a rash in this area.

*Bladder infection is present in 64% of ectopic ureter patients.

It should be noted that an uncomplicated bladder infection would cause all of the above as well and would be a far more common explanation, hence why your vet has administered antibiotics. A urinalysis and culture will determine if a bladder infection is present and which antibiotics will work against it.

Ectopic ureters are rare and it is very important to look for more common explanations of the above. Many puppies can demonstrate submissive urination or have house-breaking problems and these should be ruled out as well.

I do hope that it is just a simple infection causing all of your worry, but I also hope that you have quality pet insurance in place.

Good luck

Thank you for your response I am hope that it is early days for my little girl and it will turn out to be something other than an ectopic ureter, I feel that it would be best not to jump to any hasty surgery. I have contacted the breeder who says that it is not something that he has come across before. Whilst I think he is an honorable breeder he hasn't offered me any other options. The problem is we all know that she would probably be PTS is I returned her and to be honest if that has to be the final outcome I would rather let her have a few happy months with me first. She is happy and healthy apart from this issue.
Every website says how rare this condition is which makes me concerned that this was the first thing mentioned, as to pet insurance the problem with that is I think that it would be considered congenital and therefore not covered. And I cant change to another company as it would then be a pre existing condition !! stuffed really, I would happily pay for the operation if I thought that it was going to be successful

I have had a pup operated on for EU and she is fit and well 7 years later.  Has never been to the vet since apart from vaccinating.  Obviously it does depend on why she is leaking urine but surgery can be a sucess.  Wishing you good luck x

Thank you so much it gives me hope for the future

I had this mentioned when I took the pup I kept into the vet who suddenly started weeing a lot.  She had antibiotics but it came back and they put her on further antibiotics.  I'd not heard of it before so it was alarming hearing the vet say it was a possibility.  However, the breeder of my girl spoke to her vet and they said it was highly unlikely as it was so rare and it was much more likely to be a urine infection which are common in bitch puppies especially and can often take a while to clear with puppies.  Indeed it was, and even to this day, I notice she squats very low to the ground when weeing so I don't know if that is anything to do with it - oh, and it has never recurred.  In hindsight I think my own vet jumped the gun a little with mentioning an ectopic ureter before the antibiotics had even been tried, so hopefully yours has too.

we tested for urine infection but it came back negative and although I have suggested more anti biotics  the vet is not keen as he feels that it could damage the pup. He is monitoring the situation until she is older but I think i might ask for another test
Thank you for taking to the time to respond

Hi all I just thought that I would give an update on this post from way back. The vet carried out an exploratory to see what the problem was and confirmed that she did indeed have an ectopic Urethra but as she is a little mite we decided between us to leave any remedial operation until she was at least 9 months.
Well she is now just coming upto 11 months and had the operation on 23rd July. I am happy to say that so far I have been really happy with the results, the first few days were traumatic as she was out for quite a long time and so recovery was slow, she also had to have a fair amount of pain relief as she was very sore when trying to wee, this was a combination of infection and cystitis ( something that she suffered with many times prior because of her condition) I was really worried at about day 3/4 as she kept trying to wee after her proper wee but without success and was spotting small droplets of blood. However anyone who has ever had a urine infection / cystitis will understand that one!

However almost exactly 7 days after op and a second bout of antibiotics the corner was turned apart from the loss of weight which is still being a bit of a problem in trying getting her to eat properly again she is back to normal plus completely dry!! yeahhhh :-) so pleased as I was really concerned if it was worth putting her through it. Thankyou to all of you for your advice on this subject and to the lovely owner who was so encouraging.

I think my puppy has the same problem she is only 8 weeks old . Can you tell me what advice you were given and did the operation cost thousands as I have been told

Hi Charley100

Ok well mine did have an ectopic ureter just as my said, he picked it up straight away when I took her for a check up. She had quite alot of staining on her feathers and seemed to be dipping to go the the toilet alot which I mentioned. Infections are on of the main problems with this condition as is a swollen / enlarged genitalia.

We left it for a few months as she was so small to give you an idea she is 1 year old tomorrow & I went ahead with the first investigation in March. That entailed the insertion of a camera to inspect and see what was goiung on. It was quite clear from this that one side was not joined to the bladder at all. Prior to this I did have to either wash with a warm flannel  every day or shower about 3 thimes a week. This was to stop urine scold and also to prevent infection of which she did suffer with quite a few.
I have to say it didnt seem to bother her but she could get smelly and sticky if i didn't mind you it kept her coat clean lol. Used a very mind puppy shampoo

1st op £257 this was for the investigation plus xrays  we decided to go ahead but to try and leave it until she was bigger, she only weighs 7kg now so as you can see small area to work on. What breed is your pup?
2nd and main op £595 obviously the size of dog does make a difference to the cost but they will tell you what they think it will be, you have to be prepared that it might not be covered by insurance as could be classed as congenital. They have paid out on my claim but i only went for the main op and I don't know what the vet actually wrote .
IT WAS A GOOD DECISION trust me I agonized for months over what to do, the first few days after op were awful I felt so sorry for her she was so uncomfortable  infection and cystitis which she got on the first one and trying to stop her jumping on things for 10 days was dreadful Crated as much as possible, but it has worked and I am so glad that I did go ahead with it. Yes I might be jinxing it but I can now really try to toilet  train her  as she has got much more control.
Happy to chat any time I know what you are going through, one lovely person on here said that she had had a successful op on her pup and that gave me the courage to go ahead. Everything on the net seems to be so negative,
The really scary time was when I was waiting for her to go in 2nd op day and the receptionist was on the phone to another client, saying no no I m sorry it definitely wasn't today as we only have one major op on today and everyone is going to be involved!! yup that was us .

> one lovely person on here said that she had had a successful op on her pup and that gave me the courage to go ahead.

This made me beam.    It is what CD does so well.  The fact that experienced people are so willing to share their experiences.  It truly is the best dog forum on the net.

Well done for going ahead with puppy and op.  I don't know why people say surgery costs thousands as in both mine and your experience it was just hundreds.  My girl is now over 8 and 'touch wood' never had a problem since.  I think too many breeders are not prepared to think of their pockets before the welfare of the puppy.
I hope all goes well for the future x

Facebook reply:

Emma MH says: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/biosci/faculty/meyerswallen/ contact this person

Hi Lizziegotravel
You post is of great interest to me, I have a pup with suspected ectopic ureter, my vet isn't very positive about it and suggests surgery to be thousands and very tricky to correct, your post has given me hope, I don't think my insurance will cover it as I had taken her to vet asking about her wet legs before my 14 days were up after buying the insurance. I was wondering where your vet is based, they might be able to help my little girl too? Thanks x