My vet says that my german shepherd pup is healthy.   My pup is 16wks old, lively, strong and eats and drinks normally.  She has perfect toilet and has never been sick yet she is just skin and bone.  On the programme Dog Rescue the RSPCA showed some underweight dogs and took them from their owner.  They looked like mine!  I'm going to take a urine sample to the vet to see if she can check for anything out of the ordinary.  Is their anyone reading this who has experienced this problem?

I have two young dogs both of which were very very thin....I really couldn't understand why. Like your pup they were healthy in every way....just pitifully thin, they were wormed regularly and fed well.

Then someone recommended a different food, not that I hadn't tried other foods, I had, but this one really helped put weight on. The youngest is still 'lean' but nothing like she was.

Our other dogs are all quite weighty..in fact if anything overweight!

Have you thought of changing his food? And is he up to date on his worming?

Charlie Bown, yes I've changed the food and I don't think I can get any better.   My collie has been on this brand for 2 years and it really suits her (except she's over weight).   Also, her worming is up to date.  She has to have a worm tablet every month until October.  When I got her she was thin and drunk her own wee and ate her own poo.   Once she realised water was always there for her she stopped licking her pee but if not watched will still eat her poo.

My pup still eats my other dog's poop if I don't get there quickly enough.  It's pretty YUK but harmless.  See the article below.

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/coprophagia-eating-feces

Quite a few people have said Chappie is good for putting on weight btw.

Just a thought has your very thought about and tested for epi ? Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency its def worth ruling out and not difficult to test for.I know sheisnt showing all the signs but as its a tricky but mamagable condition the sooner u know the better. Also have u considered raw feeding ? A lot of dogs improve health wise in raw but get vet to test first for epi

Chappie is good for taking weight off, not putting it on - it's my go-to diet food for my wonky-therefore-podgy girls and is the only thing that works reliably for them.  Foods high in meat tend to put weight on, such as raw or Applaws, Orijen etc.  Less fillers, more digestible food.

Can I just ask whether you've been in touch with whoever bred your puppy - so often they know their breed and bloodlines especially, better than any vet and it could well be that this pup comes from a slow maturing line.   Can you see his ribs, hip bones?   If so then I'd suggest there could be something wrong there.   I do know too that some GSDs can look a touch 'slab sided' until they body up which could take well into her second year much as the bitches tend to mature earlier than the males.  Did you see mum, if not dad because this is relevant - also look, if you can,at the grand parents which I always do when planning a mating, perhaps even more than the parents!

GSDs can have digestive issues and it can take finding a diet that suits, before you get it right.   Bearing in mind that not all food suits all dogs.    If you decide to go to raw feeding, you absolutely must be certain you feed a balanced diet, again especially with a puppy.  

To be honest, within reason I'd rather have a puppy who is on the lean side, than one carrying too much weight early on.   16 weeks is still very young after all.   Provided your vet has done a blood work up, checked the urine and done a fecal (including for protozoa like Giardia) and it all checks out fine, I think you may be into playing a waiting game.  I'm not sure I'd want to be giving a worming pill (other than heartworm treatment if applicable!) every month.   Especially unless there have been worms present in previous fecal testing.   It's putting chemicals into the system after all.

  Sorry about the backwards advice about Chappie. I hope the OP will ignore me.

> I'm not sure I'd want to be giving a worming pill (other than heartworm treatment if applicable!) every month.

puppies should be wormed monthly to 6 months of age.

Lean side for GSD is good. Having had them for 40yrs they do go through a leggy stage but usually a bit older than yours. I can highly recommend raw feeding for this breed. Once we changed we never looked back. It's not as complicated as some people think to get a balance. Like us it needs to balance out over a few weeks and not every day. After all us humans do not get a balance each and every day. I have seen a few dogs in the park that look very lean for the breed but to be honest I would question that they were pure GSD anyway. There are many articles on line that explain the raw feeding but people usually switch because they have problem in the toilet area. If your dogs poops are firm I would not be worried that the food was the problem.

> When I got her she was thin and drunk her own wee and ate her own poo.

Normal puppy then.

> Quite a few people have said Chappie is good for putting on weight btw.

I totally disagree with that statement.

Sorry debbo I just saw your retraction. 

> they do go through a leggy stage

While I do see where you're coming from the OP hasn't said that the pup is just leggy.

In fact the way the post comes across to me, is that the pup actually looks emaciated, which I would worry about whatever the breed.  Due to the Animal Welfare Act, and the likelihood of some clever person reporting this.

No problem Jean - it'll just emphasise that I was wrong about it.

How do you do the quotes btw?

a pup of this age should not be skin and bones as the op describes her. it does sound like she hasn't had the best start so it may just be she needs a few weeks of good feeding. if water was an issue it also seems access to food was limited. I do however some tests are a good idea particularly, as I said EPI ,at least to rule it especially with this breed.

Thank you everyone for your replies.   I don't think she had a good start.  I have changed her food but it will take a few weeks to take effect.   She has been on antibiotics for cystitis.   That seems to have got better.  I still wish she didn't eat poo though.  In October she is booked in to be spayed so I will ask about EPI to ensure she has a blood test for everything and also test her pee for whatever that gets tested for.  I know you would say do it now but I don't want my stress to transfer to her.
By the way what does leggy mean?
It has been good to share my concerns with you.

Please please don't spay her at 6 months.

she needs those hormones to both physically and mentally mature.

If she has had a bad start or ahs an6y health issues unbalancing her endocrine system by removing a major part of her hormones won't help.

Also early neutering will predispose her to incontinence (and she already has water works issues).

As long as you manage her in season (strictly keep her on lead and don't exercise where there are off lead dogs) spay her between second and third season.  The first two will help you determine where the mid point between seasons is, which is the best time for spaying.

On balance there are more pro's than cons for spaying a bitch, but not until maturity. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Facebook Reply:

Deborah Fenwick-green says:  It's just because he's a pup, give him time he will fill out. Both my pups were very thin, my youngest is now 6 month and now filling out. You have had him checked by the vets, and they say everything is fine. The dogs on the telly show are dogs that have never seen a vet in months or even years. And are obviously neglected. Don't worry about your pup, he is burning all his calories on growing and learning. I wouldn't worry about it, enjoy these few month you have not having to watch his weight or worry if he is getting fat. Lol

Champdogs Blog; The Pros and Cons of Neutering

> Please please don't spay her at 6 months.<br />

I'd get her done between her first and second season.  By which time her growth plates should have closed, reducing the risk of bone development problems.   Spay incontinence could happen if a puppy is spayed before 6 months.   My vet didn't want to spay my Whippet at around 6 months when I asked - citing bone development problems and spay incontinence.   I was surprised (all my other main breed bitches were spayed on retirement so I'd not had this done before a season) but bowed to his 'better judgement'.  She'd not had a season by 11 months so I asked him to go ahead.   She's not 5.5 years (grief, where do the years go) and absolutely fine.   She is maybe a bit taller than some Whippets, but that could be down to her bloodlines and nothing to do with spaying.

>By the way what does leggy mean?

Puppies grow in fits and starts. Some days they look long in the back, other days their back legs look long and the next day their front legs will appear to have grown more than the back legs. Leggy means just that - long in the leg eg. their legs appear out of proportion to the rest of their body. Nothing to worry about and completely natural. It will correct with time (in most cases anyway!)

Whichever post you want to use a quote from, click on reply.  Then, before you reply, scroll down to the post below your reply box.  Highlight which bit you want to "quote" from.  And below that there is a very small " at the very bottom.  Click on that and voila!

Use this post to practise on.    BTW there are far cleverer people that are able to quote from several folks posts in their reply.  I don't have a clue how they do that.

> Use this post to practise on.

Fantastic Jean - I just need to remember it now - if I've done it right?  I did get a lot of gobbledygook too that I've deleted.
Multiple post quotes!?!

Thanks a lot.

Whoop!  Whoop!  It worked.

Yes I delete the rubbishy bits too.  Because I haven't got a clue where they come from. 

> My pup is 16wks old, lively, strong and eats and drinks normally

Can I just check, are you feeding her as much as she wants to eat? The manufacturer feeding guides do not suit all dogs. I have 4 adult dogs, all between 16 and 19kg yet one eats 4 times as much as another to keep the same body condition.

Generally the best quality food you can afford, and by best quality I really mean the highest meat content, will be best for most dogs. Additionally raw tripe and raw lamb breast are both excellent for putting weight on too.

> Use this post to practise on.

Thank you Jean...I'm practising too

hello chaumsong, I don't know if I'm feeding her how much she wants to eat.   I feed her what the manufacturer suggests.   This means she has perfect poo, any more and the last bit is extra soft.  I was told that this meant I was feeding too much.   As regards how much she wants to eat she would eat forever.   She is a scavanger.   It's not because she is hungry but that I suspect she was deprived for the first 7 weeks of her life.  The brand of food I'm feeding her is what I have always used for my collie except it's for her breed and was recommended by a police dog breeder.

Facebook Reply:

Jan Bardey says: Although it's normal for puppies to gow through very leggy, gangly stages they should never look 'skin and bone'. It's very unusual for a puppy to drink its own urine, so that suggests either a terrible start in life where water was restricted, or possible diabetes (the glucose in the urine would make it palatable). However GSDs are more susceptible than many other breeds to EPI which stops them being able to absorb nutrients from their food, so I would also get her checked for this - a simple dietary supplement could be all that's needed.

> The brand of food I'm feeding her is what I have always used for my collie except it's for her breed and was recommended by a police dog breeder.

The company that brands for different breeders is not a food any of my dogs get on with, (they often win it at shows and I can't put more than 25% of it in their meals without having sticky yellow poo) it is high in grains, maize based, and the ingredients are pretty average for a huge price tag.

I personally like Arden Grange, or very similar and what I now use Simpsons premium.
http://www.simpsonspremium.com/

They do a standard range, a sensitive and a Grain free 80/20 range.

I have used their standard lamb and rice for years, and currently am using the Lamb and Potatoe for one of mine who can get a bit itchy since I had them on Eukanuba last year (on offer at shows) which to my horror contained wheat. 

She was fine back on the Lamb and Rice but still a bit itchy when moulting, so trying her with the lamb and Potatoe to cut out grains altogether. 

Many of my friends swer by the Salmon and Potatoe.

>I feed her what the manufacturer suggests.  

Sometimes we look for the more difficult answers when the simple ones are the correct ones. If she's hungry and too thin then that would suggest she's not getting enough food. The manufacturers guidelines cannot be correct for every dog, some need 3 times as much, some need half or quarter of the recommended amount. I would try adding adding tripe to her kibble, and gradually increasing the amount she is eating.

Is this a puppy farm pup Bunnyfluff?

The term puppy fat is used because pups should be stocky and plump, my brothers GSD's on collection were nice and stocky fluff balls, all pups I have bred have always been chunky and tbh I would be horrified on collection of a pup to see it very thin and drinking its own urine, never had a pup do that tbh, although it does not appear to worry others, it would me, I don't think it is very normal.

Worms would be my first thought........

I would expect a GSD to become lanky and thin at adolescence, many do, that I would think to be normal, but.........not at 16 weeks of age, can't believe your vet is not worried?????????

I agree with you on tests........ the worming needs to be re-checked also, and if the pup is just naturally thin, (sometimes it can be down to breeding, if the parents are hereditarily thin then the offspring can retain that too,) otherwise...... good protein foods, tripe & chicken and rice are good to bulk up a dog/pup.

Hoping everything is ok, and I'm glad you are looking into the reasons, hopefully more time with you will bulk him out a little more. ;-)

Given the queries you have about your pup and possibly a bad start I would look very thoroughly into spaying and neutering this early and the difficult that can occur. I wouldn't be thinking of spaying her until after 18 months or later
As Brainless has said she needs her hormones to help her develop properly both physically and mentally. I would concentrate on getting her food right an watching her develop first. Don't be put off by the vet and I would be asking for tests now to rule thing sout. Also if you arnt insured do so before you start testing unless you feel you dont need to insure.

>I personally like Arden Grange, or very similar and what I now use Simpsons premium.

Barbara does the breeder club give much of a discount?

Hello Carrington, there is another poster querying about a puppy swop and my experience about the breeder is similar.  The house and whelping box where exceptionally clean with no dog smells at all.   I thought this was good but was slightly suspicious.  I think it was a 'puppy farm' but not as seen on televsion.  I think the mum and dad were genuine as the markings are like the dad. The mum was thin but then again she had just had puppies.   I didn't realise how thin she was until I shaved her puppy hair off.  I had to cut her hair as it was matted and hurt her to be brushed.  No worms thankfully.  I have had the pup 10 weeks and I would have thought with my regular vet visits and good food and feeding I would be querying why she was overweight not under.

Just checking, are you saying that as you have had the pup for ten weeks and you say she is now 16 weeks old, did you actually got your pup from the breeders when she was only six weeks old?
That would have flagged up a concern for me as no good breeder would have allowed a puppy to leave so early.
I hope the advice on here will help you. I fed my pup on Arden Grange and to a degree fed to appetite, but as she is breed known to eat until bursting, I kept an eye on her weight and feel. She did go through a phase of being less interested in eating, so added a bit of wet food and warm water to the kibble.

Aw hun, what a shame you were not aware of all beforehand...... matted fur as well on a 6-8 week pup (whenever collected) is not a good sign either is it?

I'm angst to ask....... but did you see health tests for the parents, hip scores in particular being oh so important here?

Still.... she's yours now and you certainly will not be returning her, it's hard enough after one day, but if you do find any genetic ailments in your pup which should have been checked for, come back on site and we will advise you of your next step..........dubious breeders like this shouldn't be allowed to continue. 

You'll know more as she ages, all will not be apparent for months.

But, guess it is wrong to be pessimistic, sooooooo...... optimistically hopefully she is fine, just a thin dog (It happens ) or had a bad start which you will get her over, she's loved and being cared for now.

Keep us informed, but yes, some blood/urine tests etc, just to be sure re: her weight issue.

Yes Works out more than the VAT cheaper.

e.g. The Lamb and rice in 12kg bags works out £2.79 per kg, and the Breeder 15 kg bags work out £1.95 per kg. 

You do need to order two bags to get free P+P.

> but did you see health tests for the parents, hip scores in particular being oh so important here?<br />

> if you do find any genetic ailments in your pup which should have been checked for,

I'd urge you to have her Insured so that it kicks in before any testing is done and in case serious or lifelong health issues develop as she gets older, as once diagnosed they are likely to be excluded on future Insurance.

Ordering 2 bags isn't a problem with my crowd.  And the price seems really good.  However, I do wonder at the 15k bags.  Simply because Applaws did 15k bags just for the breeders.  They have now advised me that they have been told they're not allowed to do such a large size.  Health and safety issue for the delivery guys.

It was when Applaws brought in the 20kg breeder bags that they had a problem, as they are too heavy for the couriers to handle. The were told to replace them with 15kg instead.

I think this shrinking bag thing is just to make people think price rises aren't so high. 

Funny we don't think much of a penny per litre increase, but when it was 4.5p per gallon it made a difference.

When I first got into dogs they bas were 20kg then 15kg.

when I bought Rabbit food oats etc the bags were 25kg and I managed them fine as a teenager.

Facebook reply:

Patrick Neil Higson says: Your dog should never be skin hanging off bone and thinking it's part of the growth process, obviously we don't literally know what is happening in the little ones life, what it's being fed and how often as often many feed rubbish twice a day and wonder why an active growing dog is a bone and the only adjustment needed is the owners perception and handling. It doesn't make sense that your dog sounds as dire as you say yet your vet says he's ok ???? something somewhere is missing. I would make sure he is up to date with his inoculations and wormed, perhaps have a set of bloods done and spend the next several months feeding your pooch Royal Canin at the rates and amounts recommended, hope this helps