this is her (and ours!!) first litter - she had 11 pups and is doing brilliantly.   On our breeders recommendation we started weaning 2 weeks ago; however our dogs tummy has been really scratched (especially as she is reluctant to lie down and feed) and it has become really sore.  She had sickness and diarrhoea on Friday so when I went to the vet I got something for her tummy.  He said to try and get her to feed for another week.  To be honest this is not happening at all - she will let me approach her with 4 pups at a time and will feed for about 10 mins but will not approach and I am not sure whether I should be "forcing" the issue? They are having 4 meals a day and I have given them some goats milk.  What else should I be doing?  secondly I know the mother plays an active part in their socialisation what could I be doing to encourage this?
many thanks

How old are the pups? Presumably about 4 weeks? I've had several bitches refuse to feed pups past 4 weeks and it's no problem if they are eating well and I'd just go on what the bitch decides. She still needs to be with the pups of course but if she tells them they cannot suckle, then it should be up to her.

yes 4 weeks; she wont go in the pen as cant then get out and likewise cant have 11 pups running round house. is goats milk ok as a substitute or should i buy some puppy formula?

How often are you cutting pups nails?

> How often are you cutting pups nails?

Indeed!!    I have been known to nip the pointy ends of puppy nails, almost from birth, to help protect mum.   

By the end of week 3 going into week 4, weaning onto solids can start, for sure.   And once she knows this is happening she most probably will just go back in to clean up after her puppies have eaten, allow comfort nursing, standing up, and the moment she feels the TEETH (never mind the pointy nails!) she'll want out.  Fast.   Some dams are better at staying in with their litter for longer, than others.   If she wants out, providing all is going well with weaning onto solids (puppies should be taking most of their nourishment from mum early on), there really is no need to force anything.   Each of our litters was different, depending on mum and how well the puppies were doing in general.

Goats milk, which is close in make up to bitch milk, is perfectly fine for puppies - we started the weaning process using goats milk, warmed, teaching them how to lap, 4 times a day, and also a very tiny amount of raw lean hamburger (mince).  This is eagerly gobbled up and the temptation is to give more than is good at this tender age.   Once a day, quite enough.

cant have 11 pups running round house.

Why not? Just put a gate on the most puppy proof room. I've just had a litter of 12 and from 4 weeks they were running free in living room and hall. It was great for mum to be able to get up onto the furniture but pups couldn't follow.

> Goats milk, which is close in make up to bitch milk,

Actually Goats milk although very digestible is nowhere near as concentrated as bitch milk, a ncie supplement for a while but certainly not something pups can rely on.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/114/5/803.full.pdf

I use Nutrolac which is a puppy formula made from Goats milk, though many people maintain that pusp should not have milk past natural weaning age.

I can well understand not wanting baby pups loose in the house, not only would I find this dangerous as my eyesight is poor, but the other dogs would not appreciate it.

At this age though and the weather being nice they can start going outdoors to play.

As others have said it is important to cut pups nails from around the first week, to avoid this issue.

Also your puppy should allow Mum to come and go easily but contain pups.  When ti is up to the bitch she will wean at her own pace

As others have said many bitches from 4 weeks will only give short feeds (less than a minute) at this stage.

For the first time I have here a bitch with nearly 7 week old pups who still lets them have long feeds throughout the day.  they are leaving puppy food, which I am now giving dry, but still nurse, and she is more than happy to allow it, and is unhappy if I won't let her access to them when she wants.

I am now shutting puppy open door (though I have raised the threshold so pups can't get out) to keep her out at night.

oops table of comparisons of different animals milk here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rqIa-9jew_MC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=bitch+milk+comparison&source=bl&ots=e-hWDvjDPJ&sig=9YdYBpq-A73oV5Jjf_HB-fgHBl4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vw2HVbjWIoz5UM73gaAG&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=bitch%20milk%20comparison&f=false

I don't have puppies running around the house I'm afraid. My older dogs all run free and there would be war and mayhem. Too risky for my pack and far too messy and gross for me. Bad enough now with 2 unhousetrained pups running around. I try and catch them but still miss them in the act sometimes.
In my girls previous litter She was brill for about 4 weeks and then refused. Would not even go in with them and that was her relationship with them over. There were 10 and her first litter. She hated the pup I kept and I let her go at about 7 months ( not for that reason)
The pups were weaned and have made very fine pets so no problem with her. They saw the other dogs all the time and have been particularly good with dogs generally in a breed known for potential issues with other dogs.
She has had a litter now ( only 5 ) and the first few weeks the same but this time what a difference. She fed them for a lot longer and still fed them towards the end. I have kept two pups and although she tells them off now she didn't when they were a pack. She has a much better relationship with these 2.
I generally use puppy milk not goats milk and never had a problem but this time weaned more or less onto a quality food. A pain for a week but then they were off like a train.

> I don't have puppies running around the house I'm afraid. My older dogs all run free and there would be war and mayhem. Too risky for my pack and far too messy and gross for me. Bad enough now with 2 unhousetrained pups running around. I try and catch them but still miss them in the act sometimes.

Glad I'm not the only one.

At present I have over protective Mum Peni with the 7 week old pups who objected a few days ago to her best friend playing with the pups and in telling her off poor Safi has a nice little hole in her side.

I have never had quite such a possessive bitch where the other dogs are concerned.

"  > Goats milk, which is close in make up to bitch milk,
Actually Goats milk although very digestible is nowhere near as concentrated as bitch milk, a ncie supplement for a while but certainly not something pups can rely on.

Okay, so I've been using this to start the weaning process in ALL my litters totally incorrectly.   Sigh. 

The more I come here, the more I think I must have come from MARS.

From Top Life Formula website........
4. What are the benefits of goat's milk?

Goat's milk is nutritionally very similar to the pup's mother's milk. It is very easy to digest for all breeds of dog, as it has slightly less lactose than cow's milk. The fat globules found in goats' milk are also typically smaller than those found in other animal milks, making them easier to 'break down' and digest in the gut

> From Top Life Formula website........

Ah but that I assume is a puppy formula made from goats milk, like the one I use (Nutrolac).

Must say their info is a bit misleading, if it makes people think goats and bitch milk is similar, as it has far more similarities to cows milk re protein fat etc. 

Nutrients by dry matter basis

Protein:      Bitch 36%   Goat 25%   Cow 27%
Fat:               "     43%      "    35%      "    31%
Lactose:        "     15%      "    31%     "    38%

Main difference between bitches, cows and goats is the lactose.

Of course using during weaning is no problem at all BUT IT IS NOT a suitable SUBSTITUTE  for bitch milk.

Just checked the toplife blurb on milk for puppies:

It is nutritionally very similar to the puppy's mother's milk.

The above is very misleading

It is very easy to digest with slightly less lactose than cow's milk. The fat globules found in goats' milk are also typically smaller than those found in other animal milks, making them easier to 'break down' and digest in the gut.

This part perfectly true.