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Topic Dog Boards / Health / Puppy is now constantly scratching and biting back and legs
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 13.06.15 14:50 UTC
Hi. Only in the past two weeks  my shih tzu puppy has been constantly scratching and biting his legs and his back at the top of his tail. He has been flea'd so don't think that's the problem.
As he is transitioning from his puppy to adult coat, I have in mind maybe it could be that. I am also find little clumps of fur around the house too.
anal glands has been mentioned to me but I was told by the vet, that puppies do not need them clearing, they manage themselves and they shouldn't be done on puppies, so not sure what to think on that one either.
Has any member any advice on this please?

Thanks Janette
- By Cava14Una Date 13.06.15 15:52 UTC
Have you changed any cleaning materials you use around the house? Could be a reaction to something new. I did think of anal glands too
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 13.06.15 18:54 UTC
I use a steam mop so only use air freshener and I have used the same one for years. I have bathed him a few hour ago and the scratching has decreased a bit. If he's still itching next week I think I might get him to the vet. My friend suggested it could be worms, he was wormed before I bought him but I haven't worked him yet. If I'm honest I'm not sure on how many times you should worm a puppy
- By tinar Date 13.06.15 19:23 UTC
Have you had a good look at the skin under the coat where he is biting?  Is it dry and flakey, red and raised, or greasy?
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 13.06.15 20:33 UTC
Yes it looks normal no redness or dry skin there. The itching started when the weather warmed up
- By JeanSW Date 13.06.15 21:19 UTC

> he was wormed before I bought him but I haven't worked him yet. If I'm honest I'm not sure on how many times you should worm a puppy


Sorry but if you are not sure why didn't you ask your vet.  When you took the pup to get his puppy vaccinations didn't your vet discuss the topic with you?   This is basics we're talking here and your puppy seller should have provided you with a full worming record.  The pup should have been wormed at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks and 8 weeks.  You need to worm him monthly with a veterinary recommended wormer. (Probably Panacur or Drontal.)

Can I suggest that you buy a book called "The Perfect Puppy" you can get it quite cheaply on Amazon.  You really will benefit greatly from reading the book, it is ideal for novices who need to understand canines and how to care for them.

When you say that if he's still itching next week that you will see a vet, to be perfectly honest, is not good enough.  The Animal Welfare Law covers pet dogs.  You are required by law to provide veterinary care for the pup as needed.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 14.06.15 04:16 UTC
Of course I will take him to the vet! I am not an irresponsible owner at all. If you read my post I did state he WAS wormed before I bought him. The breeder took care of that. He has an irritation of some sort but what's causing it is unknown. I asked for advice on here just in case it was something that could have been resolved before taking him to the vet.
With respect your reply was a bit harsh and a little over the top, however I have took note of your advice and thank you for it
- By Sedona Date 14.06.15 07:43 UTC
Even if he was wormed by his breeder, you would still need to worm him regularly too. Did the vet actually examine his anal glands? Just saying that puppies don't need them doing seems a bit vague, as it can depend on his diet as to whether or not they need doing? If they do need emptying he would be very uncomfortable and that could explain the scratching/biting.
- By tinar Date 14.06.15 07:46 UTC

> Yes it looks normal no redness or dry skin there. The itching started when the weather warmed up


If the skin is okay but he is itching, especially with the onset of the warm weather & higher pollen count, it may well be a seasonal allergy. Itching at the base of the tail or glands can sometimes be signs of blocked anal glands of course but also signs of allergies - and sometimes they chew areas that turn out not to be where the problem is. Definitely something to ask your vet to consider when you take him. Even if there is no redness or dry skin yet there will be shortly if the cycle to chew isn't stopped.  Get him to the vet to rule out other things & ask about whether he would benefit from allergy testing or anti-histamines to stop the itching. Also - ask more about checking the anal glands again because honestly I am not sure that the initial advice you were given about puppies not having need to check or clear anal glands is right - with my dog when he was a puppy and had what turned out to be allergies - the first thing the vet did was check anal glands so the first advice your vet gave seems a little erroneous - I would ask again.  

Also, if you have used any shampoo, conditioner, cream or grooming products on him then stop using them and just spot clean any dirt with water until you find out what's wrong.  Sometimes itchiness is not just one cause but a combination of things that trigger reactions so anything chemically needs to stop to help get to the problem. It helps to always note down in a book anything new you have used, on your pup, fed your pup or in your house cleaning, and on what date - if it turns out to be allergies it helps you keep track of things and makes it easier to detect anything that doesn't suit and eliminate it - allergies are often real buggers to narrow down.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 14.06.15 08:20 UTC

> anal glands has been mentioned to me but I was told by the vet, that puppies do not need them clearing, they manage themselves and they shouldn't be done on puppies, so not sure what to think on that one either.


It's true that puppies shouldn't need to have the AGs manually drained, but it can happen - and has with the occasional puppy of mine.   Perhaps you misunderstood.

I'd go to fleas however - they are apparently bad this year (my two have had 'em) and even if cleared, the irritation/reaction can still be there.   Where he's itching would be pretty classic for a flea problem.    I had to treat with Capstar (which only removed those on the dog and isn't a preventative treatment), and bomb the house where mine are, launder everything etc.   And even then, after I hoped I was on top of the situation, I decided to bath my Basset - 3 fleas that I counted, jumped off.   So I have to start all over again.   Once in a home, they can take a long time to get rid of.

Your puppy could benefit from a shot to calm his system down?
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 14.06.15 09:53 UTC
Thank you everyone. I have had pippin on the same diet for weeks now and even though I am new to all this puppy business I educated myself on the glands a little and tried to feel them to see if they are full. I couldn't feel anything at all. However he had his last course of flea drops last week. But I don't think this was enough maybe I should try a spray with it too? I will check with my vet asap too to see if he may have an allergy, he has turned out to be rather sensitive to certain foods regarding his tear stain so maybe there's an underlined problem to his recent itching.
I even thought about him getting overheated too that could cause it. So many things to eliminate but I'll get him sorted
- By suejaw Date 14.06.15 09:56 UTC
Do not overdose on the flea treatment. If you've just finished a course then speak to your vets first.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 14.06.15 10:04 UTC
Ok I will thank you . As we write now he hasn't itched or scratched a lot today but it still needs checking out .  Thank you
- By Brainless [gb] Date 14.06.15 13:57 UTC
Puppies should be wormed at least monthly (depends on product used, might be as often as two weekly) until 6 months of age.

I would then worm every three months to a year and then as often as necessary thereafter.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 14.06.15 14:49 UTC
Pippin was taken to the vet today. It was his anal glands. They were rather full and the vet said if his stools are not firm, his glands become lazy.
Anyhow he's sorted now but I do appreciate all the advice given from you all.
Janette
- By JeanSW Date 14.06.15 22:43 UTC Upvotes 1

> If you read my post I did state he WAS wormed before I bought him. The breeder took care of that.


Which isn't enough.  Puppies can die of worms and I was trying to ensure that you (as a total novice) were going to immediately take action on something very, very, very important.  I was trying to help you.  You didn't have any sense of urgency whatsoever.

> I am not an irresponsible owner at all


I didn't accuse you of being irresponsible and I am sorry that you think this is so.  You are, however, not a knowledgeable dog person.  You have even tried to check anal glands yourself.  :eek:
And you have said that you may try another type of flea spray.  Dangerous.  Very dangerous.

I apologise for any offence caused and was not being harsh.  Just trying to stop any mistakes that you could make.  I promise not to post any advice again for you and wish you well with your youngster.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 15.06.15 04:18 UTC Upvotes 1
I am no expert, I admit that but taking a look and maybe trying isn't exactly acting on anything. I was looking for a way to ease his discomfort till I could get him to a vet. Luckily they were open sundays , so got him there right away. He's fine now.
I do appreciate your advice on knowledge of raising and caring for dogs . And I'm also sorry too for my reply, I over reacted. I see that now, there's no excuse for that I should have been more respectful to you after you took time to give advice.
Janette
- By Wait Ok Date 15.06.15 07:28 UTC
Just a sugestion with regards to your vet mentioning "soft stools".

This is mostly caused by our modern days convenient kibbles which are absolutely full of wheat/grain as a bulking agent.
Our dogs digestive systems find it extremely difficult to digest this convenient and un natural product, the result is huge amounts of very soft un digested poo chucked out at the rear end.
Try offering a raw chicken wing each day, economy ones from the supermarket are fine. The raw bone content will help make your poo's firm, this in turn will help your puppy's anal glands to be expressed.
Dont worry if the poo's are hard and white as this is just a normal process of eating raw bone.
- By Tectona [gb] Date 15.06.15 07:51 UTC Upvotes 1
Hard and white poo is not good. The last thing you want is an impacted bowel from a dry, boney poo. Often dogs will struggle to properly digest bone when fed a kibble diet.
Not only this but hard poo does not express anal glands efficiently, a big one does! Fibrous bulk needs adding to increase poop mass to help to express the anal glands regularly.

It does sound like you would really benefit from fiddling with this dog's diet though (tear staining too etc). Have you considered a raw diet? There are a lot of companies now doing pre-mixed complete meals. Might be worth a try.
- By Wait Ok Date 15.06.15 08:28 UTC
A raw diet would be fantastic (the best ! ) this will produce a very hard small poo.
Not everyone has the facility to feed an all raw diet though.
Feeding a chicken wing with kibble will not nessasarily produce white crumbly poo but it will help tremendously with the firmness of the poo. (as a raw feeder I would never worry about any white poo's).
Feeding raw and kibble togeather is perfectly fine, but if you wished to use the products at different feeds that will work too.
Having fed raw, on off for 40 years I have NEVER had a compacted bowel!! And as far as a dog not being able to digest raw bone well!! There is so much goodness in this natural raw product.  It is the grain that a dog has difficulty digesting. 
If you wish to add a fiberous product try adding some raw/gently steamed vegetables and fruit.

If you are not able to feed raw but wish to stay on kibble try feeding a good grain free product eg, Acana, Orijen, Millies Wolfheart. This may seem expensive but because of the quality a much smaller amount is required per feed. Take care with change overs.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 15.06.15 10:07 UTC
Thanks everyone for the diet advice. I was wondering about a raw diet. Never fed a pet raw before and I do worry bout bacteria too with the food being raw plus at 6 months is he too young for that ? At the moment he's fed wainrights grain free puppy food. Grain free because of his tear stain. Would a mixed diet of raw one day and  wainrights another help? I have seen gluten, grain free raw food on the market.
- By tinar Date 15.06.15 10:20 UTC
Re: the tear stains thing. My two westies have never had tear stains their whole life until recently when my 10 year old boy suddenly developed horrible reddish tear stains  - I found out quickly it was a pro-biotic supplement that I introduced when he was changing foods and got an upset tummy called Yumpro or something like that  - I found out the culprit was Yeast Extract and Selenised Yeast. I stopped that supplement and within a week the stains had stopped and within 2 weeks there was no trace left on him. I don't know what is in Wainwrights but look at the ingredients as well as the "technical additives" listed on the food and see if either of those are in it - if so I would try changing food to one without.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 15.06.15 12:00 UTC

> Pippin was taken to the vet today. It was his anal glands. They were rather full and the vet said if his stools are not firm, his glands become lazy. <br />Anyhow he's sorted now but I do appreciate all the advice given from you all.


I hope you realise that these scent glands should never be empty.  And once manually drained, they will fill up again.   It's possible, however, for them to become impacted and perhaps infected.   During periods of abnormal stools, they won't be working properly which is when problems can happen.   And this is why a vet should always do the draining so they can see what comes out - whether there is infection there which needs to be treated.    If the reason for the clogging isn't found and corrected, it will happen again - look to diet so your pup has normal stool output.    Rather than the glands 'becoming lazy' fact is if the stool isn't firm, the glands won't work as they should.   A normal firm stool pushes against the gland so it should expel just a small amount of what's in them (not to put too fine a point on how they work).
- By Tectona [gb] Date 15.06.15 12:13 UTC
Janette, there is no need to worry about bacteria at all- so long as you're not snogging the dog just after its eaten his gut will take care of the rest! My latest dog was grown on raw from a pup, you can wean them onto raw- there's no age too young :lol:

There is absolutely no evidence that feeding raw and kibble is detrimental to a dog's health. There are people who will say raw digests faster so it all sits in the gut and ferments for too long because of the slower digesting kibble, but there's no actual proof of this.
From my own research and science knowledge, it makes sense to me not to feed bone in a meal that contains kibble. So feeding separate meals of raw or kibble or separate days I don't think would be a problem at all. But personally, I'd just give the raw a good bash :grin:

Most of the pet shop minces have some kind of grain in (rice etc), I would say have a look at Nutriment and Natural instinct first, they are pretty easily accessible, also Wolf Tucker, and maybe if you want to splash the cash Honeys raw food.

It may just be worth a go, and you can bulk him up with fresh fruit and veggies, I have heard of people using wheat bran for fibre but probably not advisable if he can't tolerate grains.

White poo sometimes happens, rarely with the premade complete minces like those I've mentioned, usually when you DIY, and although I wouldn't worry about it as a one off (Id just alter the next couple of meals to compensate) I wouldn't be happy with it. Poo should be small, firm and if left in the sun a couple days it will be white but shouldn't come out white or crumbly. And I HAVE had a dog with an impacted bowel, unfortunately! If it comes out white then the meat and offal ratio increases for a couple of meals.
- By Janette1169 [gb] Date 15.06.15 13:44 UTC
Hi thank you for that. The vets said the same but sometimes it happens they do get filled. The vet did asure me that he would be ok from now on but need to keep his diet regular and consistent and make sure he doesn't get the runs. I do understand it is a job for the vet and even though I checked it out and tried to feel the glands I would never attempt to do it myself.
Re: wainwrights food..... No yeast of any sort in the ingredients unless it's disguised under a different name.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 16.06.15 10:21 UTC

> I would never attempt to do it myself.


I can do it, usually, but only applying pressure in the right places, from the outside.   I'm not happy to go in, for fear of doing damage :razz:    Trouble is with one of my hounds, I have never been able to - I was told he's 'big' in there (actually he's just BIG!!) and his glands are set back a bit meaning a normal stool may not be applying the right pressure on the glands when passing through, and doing it externally isn't working either.  :roll:
- By Nikita [gb] Date 17.06.15 18:00 UTC
Some dogs are just the wrong form physically for the glands to empty naturally properly, I have two dogs like this.  Linc is the worst, and I have had a vet nurse teach me how to do it internally - I've been doing it externally for years no problem but for him, once or twice a year he needs to be done internally as it builds up as I can't get enough out otherwise.
Topic Dog Boards / Health / Puppy is now constantly scratching and biting back and legs

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