Hi my baby girl tola is pregnant 58 days since mating. Have been measuring her temperature and it's always on 37 and going up and down...she seems like she is in labour. She's nesting every so often diging around her bed like crazy constantly at her back side and breasts and on Tuesday I have spoted a milky discharge  form her flower if you call it that way just after she had peed and since all she's been doing is either sleeping or siting or laying around and breathing quite loudly with a wee bit of a squealing sound every time she is breathing.  She is eating but not as much as she would usually and in smaller portions and drinking alot of water and even asks for milk any ideas or helpfull information??  thanks in advance xx and also the pregnancy has been confirmed by vet and by puppies kicking the heck out of my hand every time I touch her belly lol

The way you type, it sounds to me that she could be in labour.  My main worry would be that she has inertia.  Which is dangerous.  If she is squealing I would want to know for sure what was going on.  A vet visit to be sure?  It does sound as if she is in pain.

This happened to me when my bitch had reabsorbed many ( I didn't know that )and the last few obviously died leading up to birth. I thought she was in labour with normal litter but gradually realised she was in a lot more distress than would be normal.
Get to the vet asap although obviously I hope all will be well. Squealing is not something I find you would expect.

Hey its not exactly like squealing it's just a kind of loutish breathing like she is panting but doesn't know how to half through her mouth and half through her nose if you know what I means what I dont get is that she is walking and jumping alot all the time and she still has that stringy vaginally discharge after she pees it's like a milky see through color and temp is normal?

Generally speaking, I'd let her go to her due date, and then 2 days over and then see a vet if nothing has happened.  However, as others will tell you it is possible for a bitch to whelp before the normal 62 - 63 days, especially small bitches the obviously it's up to you to decide whether she needs to be examined by a vet (do you have a mentor to bring in with all this?).    Labour, having contractions which will be increasingly stronger before she actually manages to deliver a puppy, should be fairly obvious.   And many bitches will scratch and scrape, huff and puff for some days before going into labour proper.   And as the space inside reduces (puppies) she won't be able to eat as big a meal as normal - cut back on the bulk, and offer her small amounts - little and often.

I don't set too much score by the temperature much as once it drops, and stays down, then you should expect labour to begin, within 24 - 48 hours.   Far better really is to go by her first mating, days, allowing for the fact that conception may not have taken place immediately,

I would just say that if you haven't whelped a bitch before, or even given birth yourself, it's easy to panic about what probably is perfectly normal.   If you feel you'd like reassurance, by all means phone your vet although he'll probably advise you wait - just as I have.   But she's your bitch so unless you have a mentor to take a look,  by all means have your vet examine her - much as a car trip and the extra stress right now, is probably the last thing she needs - and sick dogs go to vets.   Maybe he'd come out to check on her for you?   My biggest advice is to try to STAY CALM. 

Hey its not exactly like squealing it's just a kind of loutish breathing like she is panting but doesn't know how to half through her mouth and half through her nose if you know what I means

This does sound like labour -don't be fooled into thinking that all bitches go 63 days as few do! The earliest I've had pups born were day 55 and labour started in earnest on day 54.

Beata

Can you give us an update please.

Ive also been thinking about this girl and wondering what the outcome was. Hope all is well.

Hey she still hasn't had the puppies she's calmed down even more and is slowly getting there the vaginal discharge has stopped unless I just missed it she gas been sick couple of times and her temp keeps on jumping up from 37.5 to 37.0or 36.9 so I have been classing the first drop and not long after that first time being sick this morning as a start of things going forward so will up date asap things go more ahead x or if puppies come out xx
Thank you for all the help xxx so far xxx

What did your vet say about her being in labour so long?

Clearly she wasn't in labour!!    Just as with people, there can be a false labour and much as I don't rely on temperature taking (preferring to count from the first mating) the fact it's not gone down and stayed down yet, would suggest the 'apple isn't yet ripe'.    The closer to 62 - 63 days she can hang onto these puppies, the better.   Having said that, if she does go over by more than a day or two, and even more so if she's clearly in trouble, you must have your vet look at her.

> Clearly she wasn't in labour!!

Clearly you have never had to open up a bitch to find several dead puppies, heartbreaking for the owner, heartbreaking as a vet knowing had advice been sought earlier the outcome would well have been positive.  There CAN be a false labour but that is best diagnosed by a vet.

Hey the puppies are okay she still hasn't had them and vet has seen her she's not in full on labour she's slow and had a flew contractions and the now stopped again and vet says it's okay and tomorrow it's 63 days since first matting and I've been advised to wait till Thursday (as it will then be 63 days since last time she was stuck) latest if no more sings or any worries.

she's slow and had a flew contractions and the now stopped again and vet says it's okay and tomorrow it's 63 days since first matting and I've been advised to wait till Thursday (as it will then be 63 days since last time she was stuck) latest if no more sings or any worries.

Sounds like very dangerous advice to me -sadly a lot of vets know nothing about breeding. I hope all will be well but to me this does sound like inertia. I've only ever had a bitch go 63 days twice.

> Sounds like very dangerous advice to me -sadly a lot of vets know nothing about breeding. I hope all will be well but to me this does sound like inertia.

It was my worry from the first.  I don't just expect them to go 63 days either.

"Clearly you have never had to open up a bitch to find several dead puppies, heartbreaking for the owner, heartbreaking as a vet knowing had advice been sought earlier the outcome would well have been positive.  There CAN be a false labour but that is best diagnosed by a vet."

You are quite correct.   Thankfully I have always been on top of the situation, and know my bitches and breed.   It's very easy to be clever on an open forum like this, where people have different breeds.   I just said this, based on MY experience and by what's written here!!     And practically all mine whelped either to the expected day, or went over which if that was going on, by 2 days over with nothing happening, I was off to my vet.

Obviously all breeders, especially novices, should go by what their vet finds - recognising that not all vets have actually ever whelped a bitch, or know about every single breed!

People can be so quick to jump on what's written here, sadly.

Obviously all breeders, especially novices, should go by what their vet finds - recognising that not all vets have actually ever whelped a bitch, or know about every single breed!

They'd be better off going by what the bitch's EXPERIENCED breeder says. I've told the tale before of the bitch I'd bred whose owner had her mated and I told him the pups WOULD be early from that line. He went to the vet every single day for about a week asking his vet for help, vet refused and just insisted all was fine, pups are alive etc. Eventually on day 68 the vet agreed to a c-section, pups had been alive the night before (scan), when the bitch was opened up the pups were all dead. The vet agreed they should have listened to the owner who was relaying MY experience, and the pups would have lived had he done so. They admitted they had been wrong and wrote off the bill and agreed to not charge for any vet care for the next pregnancy/litter. (The next pregnancy was normal and pups were born alive on day 62! Which was quite late but it was a tiny litter of just 4.)

Trouble is, these days far too many people are breeding from bitches produced by total novices, so there are no mentors around for them........

How is everything going? Never had a bitch whelp so I cannot advise mind you I never started labour myself naturally either! Induced each time so no clue re natural labour starting! With a new grandchild due later in year to anxious new mum to be. I hope I know what to look out for!

> Eventually on day 68 the vet agreed to a c-section

That's just terrible!  My comment was 'go by what their vet finds', not what he hasn't found     Writing off the bill would be the LEAST I'd expect after that.   We had a case (long story) where basically the vet, the senior partner in the practice I was using in the absence of my regular vet there who was on holiday (bad timing) didn't do the C.Section I'd asked for and the stand-in locum picked up the pieces when she came on duty.  5 of the 9 puppies didn't survive and any chance of having a second litter from my bitch, who was a Canadian-bred (came back with us) UK Champion, mated that first time to a visiting American Champion, was gone.   We sued - he settled out of Court but how do you quantify that loss!!   We had no bill, but never went back to that Practice.   And we later were told, by the vet us normally saw there, that the old boy 'didn't do surgery' (if he could avoid it).

Incidentally I only ever took one litter, if that litter had to be delivered by C.Section.

I have often been accused of overreacting by my vet but I know my girls. Remember that vets are just like GPs. They know a little about a lot. Unless they specialise in reproduction, go by your gut feeling.

It's not intertria some first time mums have it like this that the first stage of labour to go for ages tola had a scan and puppies are healthy and not long to come out x

You cannot tell if puppies are healthy from a scan, only that they are alive from the heartbeats. Please listen to people with experience.

some first time mums have it like this that the first stage of labour to go for ages

Yes up to 36 hours or so. Your first post was 5 days ago. I hope you get lucky.

> Incidentally I only ever took one litter, if that litter had to be delivered by C.Section.

Same here.

Just finished having a 6 hour labour and all puppies are healthy and she was just going through a long labour and nothing has happened the puppies are gorgeous and there was no complications...

Aww and also my pic of mummy and puppies is on my display pic x

Often bitches will pant and act uncomfortable at the time they experience the abdominal shift (where the uterus has to fold and the belly drops noticeably), this happens with a larger litter usually 6+.

It can be confused with first stage labour by the inexperienced.

Some bitches can have a long first stage.  After 20 years of breeding my current Mum was in obvious labour for 38 hours which consisted of frequent visits outdoors to poop, panting whining and even howling!!!

She finally whelped day 64 from first mating (62 from last).

Interestingly as soon as the waters broke, she was calm as you like all business,a dn got on with thigns delivering all five pups in an hour and 15 minutes.

Some years ago I had a friends bitch whelp her first puppy, after an uneventful first stage, and settle down to nurse.  I knew half hour after the birth that she had secondary Inertia.  My problem was convincing the Vet practice.

I brought her to the vet after two hours and they administered Oxytocin and Calcium, managing to bring on three more pups, but it was taking too long and was now a couple of hours after closing time.

I insisted they do a C section for the remaining pups, and she had the last three that way.

I knew that she simply had not the energy to bring them on.

She had unfortunately had Gastro enteritis at five weeks in whelp, and was off her food when she came to me to be whelped and I had to hand feed her, and she was far thinner than I was happy with, but could do no more than get as much food into her as I could.

What this long post is about is that there is that there is rarely an average whelping, what may be normal but long for one can be a danger sign for others.  A bitch may quickly be in trouble or pups can come with quite long gaps perfectly healthily.

Most pups are born within an hour of their siblings but pups can come one after the other, or several hours apart.  I have even had a bitch whelp each pup at 4 hourly intervals, or thought one had finished, and have another healthy pup 8 hours later.

I also know of a bitch who had a C section whelp a healthy Mum the next day!!!  Sadly a poster here had missed pups on a C section born later all dead.

Nothing beats an experienced breeder of your breed and especially yoru bitches lines.

Few vets are experienced with whelping or breeding.  Most only know how to perform a C section, not necessarily know exactly (to be fair no-one can as what is normal for one birth is trouble and too long for another) when one should be performed.

With primary intertia measuring falling progesterone levels is indicative but most UK vets don't have access to the equipment to test quickly.  Few even keep in stock the in house premate kits that are good enough to show the levels have dropped below ovulation levels, which indicate labour should have started.

A really, really informative post from Barbara.

As you know I have a tiny breed that whelps early and is prone to inertia.  I have worked for many years to breed out huge numbers of C-sections.

I had a bitch taking rather longer than I would like, and I raced to the vet and asked anybody to fit me in for a check on my girl.  I was so embarrassed when the vet lifted my bitches tail and I saw the water sac ready to burst.  I asked if they had a room I could use to deliver my pups in.

She took me to a large room and put a blanket on the floor covered with puppy pads.  Then stood at the door mesmerised as I delivered my pups.  She said that she had never seen a litter born. 

So what Barbara has said is so true.