Can't believe this has happened, she had a silent season, no colour, and we had a black greyhound staying for a friend, no one saw anything at all. so can only be this male, to our golden retriever, she had her first litter two years ago, so no problem there, and is hip and eye tested, but I am so so upset about it. What on earth will they look like, and will I ever be able to find the right homes for them. She is 8 weeks now, and has not had the correct food either. Just a maintenance ration of royal canin. To me this is an absolute catastrophe, I blame only my self for.

If she was showing no sign of season, and you didn't even notice the male sniffing around her (which should have been noticeable) or saw any ties, I guess you shouldn't really blame yourself, all I am going to say is are you really sure she is in whelp? Are you sure it is not a phantom? Has a vet confirmed seeing pups, or have you palpated and seen movement? I'm guessing you must have already been to the vet if you are sure?

Alas, it happens! People for many reasons can have a bitch in whelp without knowing, just make sure her last week has a good upping of good quality food, hopefully all will be well, bless her.........what a rush to get all your whelping gear in place, you must be panicked, but keep as calm as possible in front of her she's going to need you.

I can't help with what they will look like, gosh, the mind boggles, could take after either, no doubt they will be large size pups, never seen that mix, maybe others have?.......... Good grief the breed traits are so different **scratching head** you will just have to make sure that potential owners understand both breeds before taking on a pup.

Its not very nice, but you could perhaps have some of the litter pts on arrival, if you had 8 pups this cross could be difficult to home, you may find unless vetting extremely strictly (and even then) that at adolescence they could end up being re-homed or in rescues, you need to weigh up what you are happy with potentially happening. A hard decision I know........but, you have to think of what lives some may end up with.

At least you are not a novice, you've had a litter and so has your bitch,

Zuluhour it's not an easy decision, wait until the litter is whelped, hopefully there are only 2-3 pups, I hope so.....I know what I would do, and I'd cry for a week, but then be ok, IMO you have to do what is best for the pups, remember they will not be the cute fluff-balls (or not) for long, they will grow up, and maybe not be as desirable,  unfortunately, you're having a litter of unknown temperament, health and questionable looks, all the worst things that a reputable breeder could dread.

Do the best to make your girl comfortable and then just go with what feels right for you, it may be different to how I feel, and I guess.... just be glad.........he wasn't a Great Dane, or Wolfhound.

> Its not very nice, but you could perhaps have some of the litter pts on arrival, if you had 8 pups this cross could be difficult to home, you may find unless vetting extremely strictly (and even then) that at adolescence they could end up being re-homed or in rescues, you need to weigh up what you are happy with potentially happening. A hard decision I know........but, you have to think of what lives some may end up with.<br />

Also would the vet consider a gravid spay.  I can't see as it would be any worse than a C section, and pups would never have drawn breath.

I recently with friends had to help a very silly owner of one of my past pups who deliberately allowed her bitch to be mated by a Border Collie.

The resulting pups are proving very challenging and fortunately we have got them into very experienced homes.  Fortunately there were just four.  Both Goldens and Greyhounds can have large litters.

Far from having more biddable loving easy going pups (best traits of both), they have all have the high drive and 'go' of the collie with the single mindedness and 'self willed' tendencies of their mothers breed.

Also would the vet consider a gravid spay.  I can't see as it would be any worse than a C section, and pups would never have drawn breath.

If the bitch is 8 weeks gone as stated the pups are viable and would have to actually be put to sleep once removed, so would negate the object.

Pity.  I'd seriously see if vet could be persuaded to PTS all but two.

zuluhour
Unfortunately it can happen to the best of us.  Even with all my experience I ended up with a Yorkshire Terrier mated that was a total no no.  She had not long had surgery for patella luxation and I had no intention of allowing her to breed.  I was in a lot better position than you though.  I saw the tie and was able to get her to the vet and have a mis-mate injection.  I found it easier to do when there were no actual pups.  I'm not sure I could pts a litter of viable pups so I really feel sorry for you.

I just want to say don't beat yourself up.  I consider myself very responsible yet it happened to me.  Go with what you can deal with.  Just look after your girl.  And Good Luck. 

To be honest, if this was me and my dogs, I'd just let the pups be born and let them live. As long as you are very careful when vetting your homes (which I am sure you would be anyway as you have bred before) you are rather in an ideal position. Back when I had my accidental crossbreed litter (13 years ago), crossbreeds were frowned upon and worthless. These days, EVERYONE wants them so it puts you in a much, much better position to find homes for them. No need to make up silly names for the cross and just be honest about what happened, but also point out that mum is hip scored etc (and isn't Greyhound one of the very few breeds known to not get HD?), and I think you should have a good chance of finding homes. The one trouble I suppsoe is that the likelihood is that the puppies will all be black, and of course shortcoated, so not too interesting in looks, but I'd imagine such a cross would make very nice pets.

I agree with goldmali

The one trouble I suppsoe is that the likelihood is that the puppies will all be black, and of course shortcoated, so not too interesting in looks.

Why is that? I don't really get genetics (didn't do Biology) so why not greyhound shape and GR colour/coat? (A Goldenhound???)

Why is that? I don't really get genetics (didn't do Biology) so why not greyhound shape and GR colour/coat? (A Goldenhound???)

In simple terms, a Golden Retriever will throw black pups mainly if mated to colours not golden, and with the sire black as well, it virtually guarantees it. Short coat is dominant over long so pups can't have long coats.

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining. So the probability is for short haired black pups, but what about shape?

I've seen some quite interesting collie/GR crosses over the years. Mainly gold coloured, one was a light gold, but in the areas where a collie might be white such as a blaze, stockings and white tip to the tail, they were a paler gold.
Another I saw recently was like a not quite right Bernese (I guess the collie was a tri) with white stockings.

I thought all Golden collie crosses were black, unless the collie was a recessive colour???

The Elkhound collie cross litter (black with bits of white on feet and chest) even though the dog is full coated all lack undercoat and are pretty smooth I'd call them short coated.

I suppose an Elkhound is a short coated dog with thick undercoat.

The pups if you saw them in the dogs home you'd guess at collie cross, maybe w3ith Lab, you'd never guess the mother was an Elkhound.

Same with Marianne's Golden x Malinois, She got short coated blacks and Brindles.

I confess I am very curious about how these pups turn out. Accidents happen, I understand the arguments put forward above but what's done is done. Providing the Mum is capable of delivering them, why not give these pups a chance?

>I confess I am very curious about how these pups turn out.

As a fellow GR owner, so am I.

> No need to make up silly names for the cross and just be honest about what happened,

Amen to that one!! They are Golden Retriever crosses or Golden Retriever Greyhound cross not the made up names that really get my goat!!

Nothing wrong with black coloured short coated dogs either!

> In simple terms, a Golden Retriever will throw black pups mainly if mated to colours not golden, and with the sire black as well, it virtually guarantees it.

You may be surprised. Greyhounds come in a great many colours, so there is a possibility of the black carrying Fawn (sable). It also depends if Greyhounds have the Dominant Black gene KB, or whether they have Recessive Black, as some breeds do. Brindle may not be out of the question either.

Agreed Lexy, I was joking about the goldenhound!

Call them lurchers and sell through the sporting press like Horse and Hound.

Many years ago there were two lines of retriever border colie crosses being bred for obedience one line produced all black, the other tri colour. I think the first (all black) was possibly an accident but won at least one obedience CC possibly became a champion. This led to more being bred. The ones I met were very good obedience dogs. Maybe a golden Greyhound cross would be good at agility.

> No need to make up silly names for the cross

as a longdog cross won't they simply be lurchers? Ok most lurchers are usually sighthound x working or terrier breed but I believe the official definition is sighthound x something not a sighthound  

If they were mine I wouldn't cull them, I would have used the mismate jag if caught earlier but not now. If both parents have good temperaments and no hereditary health problems then they'll hopefully make nice enough pets, Marianne is right though the money is on black pups and they will be short haired.

> Nothing wrong with black coloured short coated dogs either!

Unfortunately statistically the hardest to home, seen as unappealing.

Yes they'd be lurchers I suppose.

Many years ago there were two lines of retriever border colie crosses being bred for obedience one line produced all black, the other tri colour. I think the first (all black) was possibly an accident but won at least one obedience CC possibly became a champion. This led to more being bred.

The first one was Coltreiver Choice, who won at Crufts I seem to remember, and started it all off. One example of an early crossbreeder who did it all responsibly and for a reason i.e. competitive obedience. I was in contact with the lady in question when I had my accidental Golden/Malinois litter, and one of her previous puppy buyers ended up getting one of my pups.

> Call them lurchers and sell through the sporting press like Horse and Hound

I didn't like to say but I thought Lurchers immediately.

I tried to find out how to get in touch with the Coltreiver breeder when I wanted a pup for obedience a couple of years ago.  My first ever dog was a goldie x border collie and she was an amazing dog (black with white chest and tip of tail).  Is she still breeding?

Funnily enough I was in touch with that breeder (coltriever)  many moons ago when I was looking for my next competition dog, before I got my working goldie. Nice dogs by all accounts.

You might find golden/grey crosses will go down well in the hunting/rabbiting type circles. Still sorry for you though, just got to deal with it as best you can.

> You might find golden/grey crosses will go down well in the hunting/rabbiting type circle

I wouldn't sell a pup as a working lurcher, I see too many of them coming through rescue when they are injured and no longer able to run. There probably are people who keep failed/retired workers as pets but I personally don't know a single one, and I know a lot of lurcher guys.

I think a grey x goldie will make a great family pet though

Too easy, with hindsight, to point the finger (and boy, I'm not usually backward in doing that ) but just to say I've seen worse mixes than this one!   Obviously by 8 weeks a gravid spay would be pretty difficult to cope with!!   And very hard on her.   I do think you need to be sure exactly what her condition is, pregnancy or no pregnancy?   And start now, perhaps, lining up homes because clearly she could have anything up to, or more than, 10.

I would just ask you to get her spayed once she's through with rearing these puppies ???

Also, don't panic about her diet - fact is as mine were on a good quality maintenance food, I didn't do anything extra through pregnancy - once I knew /saw how many puppies we had, then I upped the amount I fed.   I preferred mine not to put on tons of weight through pregnancy, same as with humans and the puppies will take what they need during pregnancy in any case.   It's far better for the pregnant bitch to keep reasonably lean.

I assume the Greyhound has been hip/elbow scored - so even if your bitch has good hips, this could still be a problem in these puppies which means they may not make good working animals?    Nothing to suggest they don't make good pets however - especially in these days where mix-breeding is being so heavily promoted

> I assume the Greyhound has been hip/elbow scored

neither are required for greyhounds, sighthounds generally have excellent hips and elbows, some breeders do hip scoring, In wolfhounds the median is 2, 2 in salukis, 0 in afghans. I wouldn't worry that the grey hadn't been done

A friend recently had an 'oops' litter with her black lab and her sons lurcher. She was inundated with people wanting a pup, seemed a very popular cross.

Goldmali
I remembered it was Coltriever Choice but wasn't sure if it was ok to post that. I used to talk to Margaret at shows and her husband, I think it was Dennis but not sure now, gave my dog a few places when he judged obedience. I haven't done obedience for years now so lost touch. The tricolour was Retcol.
Jan
I'm 60 now and Margaret was some years older so probably not breeding now.

What about approaching Hearing dogs or Dogs for the disabled? My aunt had a litter of Lab x puppies and the Hearing Dogs people took 3 as they wanted to train them to go to men (prefer bigger dogs apparently)

Might be worth contacting them before the litter is born so if interested they can assess from an early age.

I wouldn't sell a pup as a working lurcher, I see too many of them coming through rescue when they are injured and no longer able to run. There probably are people who keep failed/retired workers as pets but I personally don't know a single one, and I know a lot of lurcher guys.

Fair enough, I only have experience with lurcher people who have kept on non-workers, but it is certainly a worry with any working home, and I'll gladly bow to your superior knowledge

Hope all pups find suitable homes.

Please let us all know how you get on! I have everything crossed for a good outcome.

I tried to find out how to get in touch with the Coltreiver breeder when I wanted a pup for obedience a couple of years ago.  My first ever dog was a goldie x border collie and she was an amazing dog (black with white chest and tip of tail).  Is she still breeding?

No she isn't as far as I know.

All over and a text book whelping, she has had 9 puppies, I did manage to get her well wormed on Friday, after the vet said it was safe to do so. She had the first puppy at 8-20 pm last night sat. It was a cream boy, then another cream girl, so that was lovely, then a black boy, ugh! three black girls and the others were cream.
4 black  1b  3g
5 cream 3g  2b
They were all over a 1lb in weight, very strong, and have all got on and suckled well, The last one was born around 5am this morning, but I just had to put you all out of your misery, and having had a bit of sleep this afternoon, I am on the night watch.
I can't thank you all enough for your support, the pups will be reared, as if they were full pedigree. We run a livery yard, and have some interest already. So I am now just so thankful mum is ok, she is the most sweetest natured girl, very small for a golden, her pedigree litter was only 7pups. So leaving things to nature just goes to show. If I could down load a photo, I would.
x

Very pleased all went well and that mum and pups are ok. Best wishes for the next stage.

zuluhour

Thank you for letting us all know.   

So glad that your girl is alright and had a normal whelping.  I agree that the way that a litter is reared is no different whatever the breed.  You will now look like a zombie for some time to come!   

Congratulations.

Glad all went well. Interesting about the colours, I suspect the creams will go quickly to homes. Good that your girl is fine.

Are you not keen re black? Puppy? Or being a male?  Glad you have healthy

delivery ☺

Oh fantastic that there were some creams (and I was proved wrong!), at least they should be really easy to find homes for. Good luck with everything.

BLACK BOY first to home, other three blacks are girls, so hopefull. Never ever have I owned a black dog or bitch in my life, my flatcoats were all liver in long past years. But their coats are jet black and so so shiny too.

Lucky little chap! Less than a day old and already a lovely home to go to! xx

Will be interesting to see how the coat texture develops as they grow, will they be smooth or fluffy. I only have a sketchy knowledge of genetics, so don't know about coat lengths and how they are inherited.

Glad all is well and hope mom and puppies continue to thrive.

> Will be interesting to see how the coat texture develops as they grow, will they be smooth or fluffy.

Short coated as Short coat dominates and Greyhounds are all shortcoated.

You'll have to post some pics when they're up and running around, be interesting to see how they look for body shape!

Congratulations on your litter.  Must have been a shock but at least all is well with them and Mum.  So glad they are all thriving and you've already found a home for one little lad.

Just wanted to speak up for your black boys and girls - personal preference of course - but I LOVE black dogs, especially when their coats are well kept, shiny and glossy.  In my breeds there is a range of colours and black would always be my first choice (all else being equal).  Never really understood why a lot of people dislike the colour but I guess we are all different!

All the best for your litter and good luck with homing the rest of the pups.  Hope you're getting some sleep!

> be interesting to see how they look for body shape!

Having seen sighthound pup pictures they all look like Labradors,  it's quite some time before they have a sighthound bodyshape

Congratulations! Glad that everything went smoothly for your girl. Nice mix of colours there, (fingers crossed for good homes) be interesting to see how they turn out.