Brainless check out what the KC say to their ABs about deposits, they say it is a legally binding contract and you could be sued even if returning a deposit: (Page 1 at the bottom)
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/343848/guidance_v2.3.pdf

do abs require pups to vaccinated at least once before seliing or did I misunderstand brainless?

Carrington imo its not just a pointless operation it also puts the pup at risk of over vaccination and risk of subsequent problems. for e its not the cost its the pups health. I am very wary of vaccination and regularly research what's going on.

Yes, furriefriends we are all much more aware now, and we do know that pups have immunity from the dam way past 8 weeks, the norm for most first vaccines. It is an uphill battle though as most vets will not pass on that information, in fact never met one that does, most will happily inoculate from 6 weeks upwards without a hint it probably won't work.

Still, prior to knowledge and going way back to childhood, pups were always vaccinated on purchase and our dogs have always had the yearly booster (again controversial today) they've all lived long, healthy, lives so I guess unless you've been unlucky, I'm not as wary as some of you, I may be more clued up..........but never had any problems, so I continue with vaccines from 8 weeks and yearly boosters.

completely agree Carrington we do what we believe is best for our dogs. also I am aware once you go looking for things you find lots to support an argument hence why my awareness is raised. I don't think I have been particularly unlucky compared to some but I think my real worry is pups being over  vaccinated with double sets because some arnt aware what's happening. personally I have always been able to do myself as the breedrs have been happy with that too. I just think my more awareness is needed and breeders and prospective buyers need to work together for the best outcome. tbh I am quite conservative compared with many I know who wont touch any  vaccines at all. the other option if homeopathy is your thing is nosodes

I think my real worry is pups being over  vaccinated with double sets because some arnt aware what's happening.

I agree, it is not something I am comfortable with the thought of re-starting......but vets aren't worried about it are they? It doesn't bother them at all. Two pups from the litter previous to me stopping vaccines for my pups were done twice, that's why I stopped, along with hearing it was becoming common-place for vets to start again as manufacturers were different.

Those with the medical knowledge don't worry about it. Maybe we over-worry.....I don't know......

My mum once got confused about one of her dogs boosters, mixed it up with one of her others (she has 7) and the dog fell behind by 2 months, well obviously I'm clued up that immunity is still fine, but her vet wanted to re-start her dog again, saying he wasn't covered, luckily I was there and told him he was.........he went away to 'talk to another vet' and came back and said the booster would be fine.

Vets are not worried at all about it?

I don't think we over worry and I am sorry but I don't go by my vets lack of worry or my doctor for that matter  . my vet and many others don't recommend or agree with raw feeding but I don't agree with that and will always raw feed if at all possible .

I know from a vets perspective there is a lot more to what they recommend and why they need to cover themselves as well as a lot doesn't get reported but i will leave that there so as not to offend anyone

Tagging on at the end re vaccinations. I had a puppy who had his first one before coming to me as I couldn't pick him up dead on 8 weeks. My own vets didn't stock the vaccine so I called all local vets and found one who did and booked in there for 2nd vaccine and all was good and no problems. I think if breeders do the first one then they need to highlight to owners that they need to find a vet who will stock the same
Brand of vaccine.

agree suejaw and preferably before they do the first vaccine so agreement and research is done before you find you have a problem

Yep that's what I did and her vets agreed to post said vaccine to my vets if no one local stocked the same brand

We were lucky our breeder 25 miles from us so we didn't mind travelling to her vet. We also did see her again and as we had pre booked a cottage for a long weekend before buying puppy our breeder had him for the four days at 14 weeks! We have met quite regularly and walk his brother and sister with him in our woods. It's lovely to see them catch up.
A lot of litters are advertising first inoculations given so I guess you could ask which type and query with your vet if they offer the same?
We had our boy at 9 and 1/2 weeks a lot of people are happy for pups leave at 7! Is this a little too early? On the other hand my cousin just brought a border terrier and advised best collect at 12 weeks!

I have given deposits for mine.it never occurred to me it was odd

No it doesn't say it is but may be treated as a legally binding contract, if things are not clear.

Quote" Where a deposit is taken, the terms of that deposit should be clearly stated in writing and should set out the rights of both parties."

A failure to do so could result in a legal dispute for breach of contract and a claim for damages even if the deposit is returned.

I seriously doubt someone would go to law for a 10% deposit that is returned if I end the contract.

> way back to childhood, pups were always vaccinated on purchase

Prior to mid 1990's the first full vaccination was not given until 10 weeks with final one after 12 weeks, only an extra parvo was sometimes given at 6 weeks if there was a high risk/outbreak.

This was certainly the case with my foundation bitch born 1992, and my first litter 1995.  I well remember the publicity of the NEW  vaccines that were supposed to get past maternal immunity, and allow vaccination sooner at 8 and 10 weeks.

We know that isn't always so, with fully vaccinated pup bred by one fo our regular posters and owned by another contracting parvo at 4 months, and being found when titre tested to have no antibodies for anything else vaccinated for ,as for that pup it was too son.

My puppies are vet checked before they go to their new homes.....heart, lungs, all "bits" present, coat, ears, mouths and I have a form that the vet signs to say that the puppy had been checked and there are no obvious problems. I then ask the new mum and dad to take the puppy to their own vets within 7 days and if there is a problem I will give them a full refund. My "puppy pack" contains a 19 page information leaflet, food, health check form from my vet, pedigree, free 4 week insurance, toy with mum and siblings smell.

Lynneb do you have the form that you use so I could construct one for my vet, as I am pretty sure he doesn't have a ready made form for litter checks. 

His receptionist looked totally blank when I mentioned it on Friday which was his day off.

Lynn where would I get one of these forms from? Is it a 10 point check or more than that?

I've just received email asking me to choose between puppies from a photo, leave a deposit and then view at weekend! If not happy have deposit back... mmm not sure re pick and pre deposit before visit!

Have you met this breeder before? I'd not consider it a good sign that they want you to pick a pup from a photograph. Any descent breeder is going to want to meet you and would be able to advise on which pup(s) would be suitable for you so you only l pick one that is suitable, or may even only offer you the most suitable. So to just send u a photo to pick a pup based on, would be a red flag for me, unless of course were talking about a pup in another country.

When we first went to see the breeders of our dog, we were taken into the sitting room and there was about an hour of chat before we even saw the puppies let alone got to the position of choosing one. In the end the breeders wife choose the pup for us as she knew our needs and really knew the puppies characters as she had spent all her time with them since they had been born.

I wouldn't feel very confident about a breeder who wanted me to select a puppy from photos, I would want to watch the pup, feel it, try and see its character before making a choice.

Have no problems with giving a deposit, my breed is numerically large and I should imagine that there must be occasions when someone has said they want a puppy, then change their mind and go to another breeder for some reason, unexpectedly leaving the breeder with an 8-9 week old pup to try and find a home for.

and as I said it is advised in the homing section in the book of the Bitch.

Yes but that book IS very old and does have various other weird recommendations in it -lots of good stuff but certainly some questionable advice too.

I chose not to choose puppy from this litter. I met our breeder and chatted for ages before I saw the puppies.On our second visit we then chose our boy and visited a third time before our pick him up date!
I guess because I had such a good experience last time I'm a little more unsure? Edgy? Picky even? About our next family addition.

> Yes but that book IS very old and does have various other weird recommendations in it -lots of good stuff but certainly some questionable advice too.

but that's your opinion, and your free choice to do, there is no one single way to do things, and others are free within reason to do otherwise, as long as in regard to puppies their welfare is not compromised.

It was brand new (had the Crusts BIS winning Beardie and her litter on my original copy) when I first bred, and I see no reason to change routines that work for me and mine.

It's this one size fits all idea that was the major reason for my leaving the ABS.

Suejaw. Made it up myself, vet was impressed lol

Can you sent it to me please? Either email or via PM?

I guess it's the same with any advice/expert book be it dogs, horses or babies!  Always a newer expert to take over the "in fashion" at the time. If a book/routine works for you go with "If it ain't broke don't change it"!

>When our pup went for his 6 month check, as predicted his murmur had gone.

Brainless said:

>Did you then pay her the other 1/3, as the pup turned out to be perfectly healthy?

Reply received:

"Deborah Fenwick-green says: She wouldn't accept it. We did keep in touch. When we decided to get a second dog, there was no question where we were going to get him from."