Posted this on the Bravecto thread in the General forum, but wanted folk who breed to see it....

Has anyone who breeds used Bravecto on their breeding bitches, even when they are not actually pregnant or lactating, and then subsequently had a problem-free pregnancy? 

I know it says it is approved for use in pregnant and lactating bitches, but the safety info on the product says:

"The following abnormalities were noted in 7 pups from 2 of the 10 dams in only the treated group during gross necropsy examination: limb deformity (4 pups), enlarged heart (2 pups), enlarged spleen (3 pups), and cleft palate (2 pups). During veterinary examination at Week 7, two pups from the control group had inguinal testicles, and two and four pups from the treated group had inguinal and cryptorchid testicles, respectively. No undescended testicles were observed at the time of necropsy
(days 50 to 71)."

http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/binaries/Bravecto_PI_8_tcm96-153753.pdf

I don't plan on breeding from the dog for another year, so even if I treated with Bravecto now, should be well out of the dog's system by the point of breeding, I'd have hoped.  Although if it hangs around for 3 months, who's to say how much longer lesser traces of it are there?!  arg.  I really want to use it, it sounds great not to use a spot-on or collar.

Edited to add:  Those who are experienced breeders, does that incidence of deformities/issues sound more than would be present on average, usually?  I'm guessing yes?

> Those who are experienced breeders, does that incidence of deformities/issues sound more than would be present on average, usually?  I'm guessing yes?

Very, very, very much higher.  So much so that I wouldn't ever consider it.  Not in a million years.  Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Well if you take an average litter size of 7 for a beagle x 10 dams, 70 pups and 4 had a limb deformity I would say that was quite high, but really you'd need a lot more information before making a decision. I'm guessing that these lab beagles are not watched 24/7, so Mums could have lain on pups. Also what is a deformity, is it double dew claws, limbs slightly longer than they would expect or is it what we would think of as a deformity - mishapen limbs?

2 with cleft palate might be normal, the rest of the results I think you maybe could find in any pup. it's just these ones were all euthanised and examined, normally breeds don't kill their puppies to see what size their internal organs are! The testicles not having dropped at 7 weeks I wouldn't worry about.

I don't think these results are necessarily worrying. The fact that only 7 pups were affected suggests that possibly the ones with cleft palate also had other problems which were found on post mortem but wouldn't normally be discovered by anyone outside a lab. Normally a pup with cleft palate would be put to sleep but not autopsied, maybe cleft palate always comes with an enlarged heart and spleen?

I would say that more research needs to be done, but I would hate to condemn more lab dogs to that.

To be honest I'd never want to use a wormer that didn't act on reducing worm burden in the puppies in a pregnant bitch.  None but Panacur state that they do this. 

Otherwise I'd worm a bitch before mating, after whelping (but not with something that could get into the milk) and not with something that long lasting floating around the system. 

I would only use long lasting stuff that works on or the outside of the animal for external parasites.

This insecticide with three months activity in the bitch I would not use for 6 month prior to mating to be sure it was out of the system, if I used it at all.

We are putting far too many poisons into our pets.

For sure I would never use this during pregnancy or lactation (even though it does say it is safe for that). 

I have a bitch I want to breed in a year's time and was going to try Bravecto on her now - but I think I've decided not to.  Even though it wears off and isn't effective after 3+mnths, who's to say that lesser quantities of it don't stick around for longer.  I'll give it to my older spayed female who's coming with us, instead.

And I'll put a Scalibor collar on the young bitch for the weekend - we're coming to the New Forest area for a couple nights to get her hip and elbow scored with Marilyn.  We don't live in a heavy tick infested area, so I just remove them with the o'Tom twister at home, but I'm thinking there will be too many ticks for that in the New Forest.... Anyone in the New Forest want to confirm!?

Rabid I have wondered this since the product came out and thought it lasts in the system for 3 months so what's the risk to a bitch. You have now confirmed I will never use this or confortis either. Spot on for me as and wehn

Well, to be fair, in the trial, they did give the dogs 3x the recommended dosage of Bravecto and they also gave it repeatedly during pregnancy - so the doses were much higher.  But it still makes me a bit uneasy.

I'd still consider it for the older neutered dogs though... Just so much easier than spot ons or collars!  When travelling abroad, I would still want a Scalibor collar because Bravecto doesn't stop ticks biting, they are supposed to be killed within 12hrs of latching on - in climates where ticks carry more nasty diseases, I think that's too much risk so would still use a Scalibor collar when on the continent with them.