hi all,
im new here so please be gentle. we have just mated our bitch for the first time, this will be our first litter. i have done nearly 2 years worth of research before jumping into this, so not just done this lightly. my bitch is health tested and kc registered etc.

anyway,
she started standing on day 10, so took her to the stud on day 11 and again on day 13. we had a 10 min tie the first time and 15 minutes the 2nd. my worry is though that now we are on day 16 and she is still as flirty and horny as ever. she will not leave my neutered dog alone, she is humping him, then going round the front of him and shoving her bum in his face. he is keen, and is licking her (both ends!) and does try to steer her into him. please note that i never ever leave them alone and as soon as he tries to hump her we stop it, although to be honest once he starts humping he then gets confused and doesnt know what is supposed to happen next so walks away from her.
is this behaviour normal or have we mated too early? the stud dog owner has offered another mating today or tomorrow but its quite a long way to go and if we can help going again i would prefer not to, but at the same time i dont want to have missed the optimum time by mating too early on days 11 and 13

any advice would be greatly appreciated..... all the books say days 10 and 12 are ideal but that all bitches are different.
i have also read some people saying their bitch shuts her season down after conceiving but then others dont

many thanks :-)

Welcome to Champdogs Vicky

In my experience, this is completely normal behaviour for some bitches whether they conceive or not - all bitches are different and some of ours will continue to flirt for days after they have been mated and some don't. I'm sure other members will be along soon to share their experiences.

I posted this exact question  not very long ago. I am not a first time breeder by any stretch of the imagination but I had not seen one of mine this flirty that far on.
My question also was had I mated too early and we had just come back from a 3 day trip away as it was a 4 and a half mile trip up there.
The news is that she is now 7 weeks in and is definitely in whelp but it has been indicated it might be a small litter. Whether small litter is because it was too early I suppose I will never know.

thank you for the welcome JaneS :-)

and thanks to you both for your quick replies. maybe we dont need to rush off back to the stud then..... she was standing from day 13 to day 20 on her last season and was extremely flirty then (thats a polite way of putting it, i have actually never seen such a hussy!) so maybe thats just who she is and she will always be like that when in season.

i will hopefully have her scanned in a month and see whats happening. but i think you have put my mind at rest a bit and i will just keep my fingers crossed.

do either of you know how long the sperm lasts for? i have read different things from 2 days to a week.... if it is the latter then we should definitely be ok not to go back to the stud shouldnt we

she is only a small breed so im only expecting a small litter from her anyway :-)

You may be aware of this already but if not a neutered dog can still mate a bitch..just not produce. I notice in your text, you are stopping him but just thought I would mention it :)

A friend of mine has a giant breed bitch who she has mated over the last 4 seasons on the "normal" days, 11 and 13.... She missed all 4 times. This time she has had her progesterone tested. She didn't ovulate until day 20, which explains why she has missed her everytime. Maiden bitches and tarts can just be tarts throughout a season. You should bare this in mind.

Oops that would have been easy if it was a 4 and a half mile trip! I meant 4 and a half hours.
Hope you get some good news later on.

hi lexy,
thank you, yes i am aware that a neutered dog can tie with a bitch, which is why they are never left alone together .... ever! :-)
he is a large working cocker spaniel and she is a mini dachsie so no way i am risking that! but he is a very good indicator for me, and he gets her in the mood! well, hopefully! :-)
he has been interested in her since day 9 - 10, so i am hoping we have got the days right. i think he would be less interested in her now if she left him alone, but the poor boy gets her on his back every time he lies down! lol
i do split them up too so she is not pestering him all the time :-)

but thank you, for the advice. :-)

Oh I should have said we mated her on days 15 and 17 and she had a litter of 10 before days 16 and 17. I have read sperm lasts up to 10 days but I'm not sure as various books and articles state a lot different to that ( less)

oh gosh tanya that was a late ovulation! im assuming the bitch was standing for the dog on days 11 and 13?

well, i think this time round we will just keep our fingers crossed and hope..... if she misses we can always try again next season. :-) i think she might just be a hussy! :-)

Hazenaide - did you have her tested before you went or did you wait for her to stand? because those dates are quite a bit later than the suggested days 10 and 12.
i havent had my girl tested, but i waited until she started standing and then went the next day.  oh gosh, now im wondering if we should go up again? 

She was standing, yes.

No I have never tested. The earliest I have ever mated a bitch is 15 days and have done anything from 15 to ( just once ) 21 days 2nd mating.
I do have a draminski ovulation detector but not enough on its own. I go by behaviour which is why yes I was concerned she was so flirty about 4 days later.
There are many things about dog breeding that cannot be generalised and I have long since ignored some things in Book of the Bitch. One example is wait until the bleeding changes colour for this I would have waited another week to 2 weeks. Another example is when puppies eyes open. Mine are always several days later than it states.
So this is only generalisation and things vary tremendously in real life.

I think I would take her to the stud again, then you will know for sure that you have done all you can this season.  You don't want to say to yourself if she's missed 'I wish we'd gone back for another try'

> because those dates are quite a bit later than the suggested days 10 and 12.

I have never had a successful mating of a bitch of mine before day 14, most are ready according to the stud days 14 - 18, and one of mine was ready days 18 - 20 on all three litters and her daughter has just been mated days 16 - 18. 

This girl at day 21 is still pestering the life out of one of my other bitches (and vice versa) who is in season also.  So have had to rotate them in a crate.

So it's useful to know what is most common in your breed and in the bitches mother and other female relativism but despite that individuals vary.

Best indicators other than blood testing are experienced males of the type who won't mate a bitch until, she is ready.

I'd agree about taking her to stud again.  I always prefer to mate a bitch to the point she is reluctant to stand, as then I know she has gone over. 

The fact my young bitch is still happy to continue to stand for her girlfriends does not mean she would for an entire male, as my girl was starting to show she had had enough, so we then brought her home.  I also often find they will stand at home for their mates days before they will for a male.

thank you everyone who has replied, i am grateful for your input.
i have spoken to a few dachsie breeders and it looks like dachsies are hussies :-) they have virtually all said that their girls flirt and hump right up to the end of their seasons.
so, i have taken a gamble and have put my trust in my bitch and am keeping my fingers crossed. we can always try again next season :-)

the stud dog was extremely interested in my bitch when we went, on the second day we had got a tie within about 1 minute of them meeting! but then my bitch didnt put up any kind of resistance or even try to play hard to get!

i think it would be quite interesting to know if there was a trend among breeds. as Brainless says above, its useful to know whats common in your breed. i wonder if that has an effect on ovulation timing or if its just pot luck with each bitch, or, even more frustratingly, each season!

anyway, i will try to remember to update this thread in about a months time, if we have her scanned.... fingers crossed for good news! :-)

thanks again everyone :-)

I always progesterone test as behavioural responses and physiological status can have little correlation IME. Mine are rarely ready before day 15 and sometimes as late as day 20. Have had bitches come to my stud who would stand way before they were ready

Hope your lucky but if not next time do the bloods especially if you have a strumpit :)

> because those dates are quite a bit later than the suggested days 10 and 12.

Well having a bitch who "stood" on day 28 and had a large litter for the breed I would never suggest days 10 and 12.

Only the one mating so no doubt about due date either.

I do wonder if the fact most bitches are now likely to be housedogs we pick up on the start of a season, even testing for fist blood from several weeks before, that we pick up on the start of a season better. 

Perhaps in the old days when many were likely to be kennelled they missed the first couple of days??

My foundation bitch 20 years ago was mated on day 14 and 15, so I don't think bitches being ready later is that new.

I don't have males to give me a clue and bitches behaviour with her fellows is very misleading.

So with a maiden bitch I'd generally take the bitch up to stay with the stud around day 12, not expecting a mating for several days, but just in case she was a bitch that ovulated on day 8 - 10.

With bitches that have previously had litters I would not bother to go until day 14.

Only ever blood tested once, and after three days of blood draws the bitch was none to happy.  She went from loving vet visits to being very eager to leave as soon as possible after kissing the vet staff from that time until now some 11 years later.

I'm very grateful that in my breed the norm is for the bitch and dog to stay under one roof for the duration, until they have ben mated over at least a three day period, either every day or alternating days until the bitch or dog show she has gone over.