Hi,

I have a 4 month lab puppy who recalls perfectly fine if there are no other dogs around.
However should there be 1 or more dogs around, he simply ignores me, he really doesn't care even should I walk away and try calling him.
I understand that he is young and that he just wants to play (I should state that I prefer to have him off the lead). I have tried chicken, cheese, liver cake with no use.
Does any one have any suggestions?
The last thing I want is for owners to think I don't have control over my own dog (whilst this could be handled by putting him on the lead, I'd rather give him some freedom to run about and play)

snap but my little darling is 5 near 6 months so I feel your pain.  She just thinks that there is always more fun to be had somewhere else. Even when we are on our own and she toddles off to explore when shes done far enough she stops and you can see her weighing up her options....do I really want to go with her ??? Most of the time it is... oh if I must... but god help me if there is another option. All I can say is just keep on trying 4 months is still a baby and its a great big exciting world out there

The trick actually is to NEVER call unless you are CERTAIN the puppy will come back.The more times you call and puppy doesn't come, the more puppy will learn to ignore it. So you set the puppy up for success, practice recall without distractions to start with. If you can find an area without a lot of dog walkers, it's excellent to keep running away from the pup, hiding behind trees and in bushes etc, to teach that he needs to keeps his eyes on you, otherwise you might disappear! If there are distractions like other puppies, use a long line and extra super tasty treats or favourite toy.

thanks will do

I would keep the puppy on a long line so that you are able to prevent him from approaching unknown dogs - especially those on lead - until you have checked with the owners that their dog is happy to greet yours. Having positive interactions with other dogs is essential at his age and it only takes one grumpy dog to ruin his socialisation. A long line will also help you to recall him and prevent him ignoring you and running off

One of my rescue dogs was bomb proof with other dogs but having been jumped on and floored by an over enthusiastic, large youngster he is now reactive to dogs that encroach upon his space and get in his face. Not his fault - the other owner had no control at all over her dog whereas he came straight back when called and I put him on his lead. Sadly her dog rushed over and jumped on him and knocked him flying. I made sure he had good interactions with other steady, reliable, sociable dogs straight after that incident and he was fine until a week later the same dog came flying round a corner and did exactly the same to him. Now he is very wary of all unknown dogs and will react to them if they run at him so he has to stay on lead if I walk in more populated areas.

Not only is it annoying for myself and my dog but if  a youngster should run up to him it could end up having a less than great experience and that's not what you need with a youngster.

I too would love for my dog to be off lead and running around - as are my other dogs - but it now wouldn't be a responsible thing to do - all through a problem caused by someone else being irresponsible.

I really think you need to be having your pup on a long line until the recall is 100%.
Running up to another dog whether on or off lead might take great offence and react in not the kindest if responses.
Dogs on a lead are on them for a reason be it aggression, injury, training etc and it's poor manners to allow an offlead dog to run up to it, I see it time and time again. Your dog might be friendly but not ever dog being walked is

Does any one have any suggestions?

He's to young yet to start 'obedience' training......anyway to answere your question, I agree with others he needs to be on long line at the moment.

I suggest you find a gundog trainer who would take you on then see what they think regards when & what etc dogs ready for training, also the lady with the Lab in the short vid clip below gives some feedback on 'reward' training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1qSFr37WH0
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My opinion is that he needs freedom now ( in safe places) and that he will grow out of believing that all other dogs are interesting and willing to play. If he does not get that freedom as a youngster, when you do eventually let him off he will take off to enjoy himself and  it will be even harder to teach him. All of my dogs as puppies behaved like yours and at about a year old, they listened a lot more, came almost reliably for a treat and now come when called  ( unless there is something delectable to roll in!)  Even as puppies, most dogs quickly learn the warning signs from unfriendly dogs and steer clear. A bit of a lesson from another dog will not hurt him.  He has to learn to cope in the adult dog world. I bet many will disagree with this but I have owned 23 dogs over 40+ years and have not come unstuck yet.

As can be seen in my post above - sadly  my experience was different to yours. I agree that pups learn best from other dogs and allowing a pup to socialise with dogs that have great manners and are of a good temperament is the best way for them to learn - BUT you need to know that the dog your pup is running up to and leaping all over is not going to tell it off in such a manner that it will cause problems in the future.

I don't think anyone should be allowing their youngsters to approach just any dog they happen to meet out and about without checking with the owner that it is ok to do so. Dogs on leads are usually on lead for a reason and that can be for many reasons including injury so being jumped on by an exuberant youngster is not fair. By all means let youngsters mix with other dogs but check with the owner first.

I have spent a huge amount of time ensuring that all encounters for my rescue are positive ones - and then someone lets their dog bound up into his face whilst calling out from a great distance "It's okay he's friendly" and my wary dog believes he has to get in first and there we are back to square one again and a whole year of training is out the window.

Your puppy needs to learn to walk nicely on the lead - whatever your personal wishes might be, there are places where being on lead is essential - as well as behave himself off lead. At the moment he's still young enough to have 'puppy licence' where older dogs are inhibited from hurting him if he gets too rude, but that will soon wear off and if he pesters an older dog who isn't particularly dog-friendly he's likely to have a very unpleasant, and avoidable, experience. Are you taking him to training classes?

> A bit of a lesson from another dog will not hurt him.

Perhaps not, from a stable adult, even a mildly unsociable one.  But if he runs up to a very unsociable one, then that bit of a lesson could be very damaging, both physically and mentally, and not just to him.

I do not want other dogs running up to some of mine because they are frightened of them, and one may react aggressively - the last thing I want is for her to a) get a chance to practice that behaviour, b) get her own lesson that it works when the other dogs runs off, c) be stressed and frightened when she's supposed to be enjoying a walk, and reinforce her perception of dogs as a threat and d) for the other dog to potentially have issues of its own triggered by my dog.

Puppy licence IME has no bearing at all with dogs like her - in fact some dogs find puppies much worse than other dogs because they do not know the rules yet, and may be MORE aggressive towards them, not less.  Certainly my old dobermann bitch was like that, puppies were the worst of the lot as far as she was concerned.  Bouncy, rude, uncoordinated - nightmare.

Recall needs to be practiced at every possible opportunity, over and over, any time you know pup is going to respond.  Practice indoors first, then slowly build up the distractions.

Personally I start by pairing the recall cue with a fantastic treat - cue, treat, cue, treat, cue, treat, at least a few dozen times until he's made the connection.  Then I do small recalls when response is guaranteed - that's when he's coming towards me already, we are playing, whenever he's already tuned in to me.  Then out in the garden, same thing.  I start to throw in running away too - give the cue, run like hell!  Make it fun.  I find that really strengthens the recall, not because I'm leaving the dog behind, but because they want to chase me!

Out in the world I also do 'click the trigger': it's a simple game geared mainly towards reactive dogs, which is where I use it the most, but I have found it excellent for recall too.  Basically, whatever it is he's running off to - so dogs, in your case - the very *instant* he sets eyes on them, mark it and reward it.  I use a clicker but you can use a word as long as it's distinct and you can get it the same each time.  If I've forgotten my clicker, my guys are also trained to 'good!' said high and very quick.  After not many repetitions of this, every time the trigger is spotted, the dog should start to see it and then look back at you for the treat.  Now you can reward that looking back.  Practice that and before long the dog should see the trigger, then start to turn back to you for the treat.  Now reward *that*.  Doesn't take long before the trigger itself becomes a recall cue :-)  I first started doing that with Paige and I've never looked back - it's been an absolute godsend!  Especially for Linc, his recall was absolute zero if he saw another dog when I first got him but now he spots them, then comes back to me.  No fuss, no panic, no problem.

I also find training to a whistle as the cue extremely beneficial: the whistle not only carries better (especially if it's windy) but it's a very distinct sound in the environment.  I favour Acme gundog whistles, they have a nice clear, loud tone that carries well.

Just to put a slightly different slant on things.........one of my dogs is 13;  he's got arthritis in his hocks and is covered in various lumps.  However, he still enjoys pootling along with my others and is basically a friendly dog.  However, if a dog/puppy comes flying up to him, knocks into him or paw thwacks him it HURTS him.  He is too nice a dog for me to allow this to happen.

So, to everyone who thinks it is okay to allow your dog to run up to others, please give others some consideration......you too,  one day, may own an oldie that doesn't enjoy being mugged.

If you want your pup taught a lesson by another dog, then employ a professional dog trainer that has a stooge dog for such purposes;  kindly do not assume you can use my oldie.

However, if a dog/puppy comes flying up to him, knocks into him or paw thwacks him it HURTS him.

Similar, in the short vid clip below, after telling the owner she was over 12 years she was blessed with 3 dogs instead of one.....no harm done but the potential was very high indeed depending on individuals involved, still amounts to one thing, dogs out of control & totally ignoring recalls, the spaniel turned out to be 14 months, adolescents are not a pups!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVd8mRjE2Xw
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