Could you explain to her that if she really loved Toby, then she needs to let him live with you, so you can help him become a better dog. Not sure if it's a possibility for Toby to still visit her on occasion, but that may help her see the light if she could still see him, then she'd have the best of both worlds... knowing that he's being well looked after and well mannered, but not having to deal with his constant mischief

I think you just need to bite the bullet and don't be swayed by emotion and get the puppy out.

Sometimes older people have to be talked to like children as they become unable to see past their own selfish needs above anything else . I hope that doesn't sound harsh but it will end up somebody getting seriously injured otherwise.

I do feel for you as you have been put in a very difficult situation.

Maybe think about getting social services involved ?

> I think you just need to bite the bullet and don't be swayed by emotion and get the puppy out.<br />

The trouble is until she gives me her consent I cannot take him. My company would have no choice but to put me in disciplinary and at the end of the day I cannot put my job on the line. Social services would simply pull the care package and that would leave them with no care at all. I have spoken to a couple of the tuck in girls and they are going to tell her it would be best if she gave him to me every chance they get.

I feel for you,  I really do.   Mary sounds exactly like my MIL, agrees that we're right then does exactly as she pleases and always has.   At her age she isn't going to change.

Having a similar situation with my friend.   She has the number for a brilliant behaviourist/trainer only 10 minutes away in the car,  but every excuse in the book for not ringing and getting started,  including,  "but I love him."    At the moment she can't even walk him in case he pulls her over on the ice,  and is staying at her daughters for the same reason.    He has at least stopped puppy biting at last,   but is beginning to 'warn'  her for really minor things.   He's a lovely young dog,  but desperately in need of guidance and boundaries.

Some people seem incapable of helping themselves,  even when supported

It does sound like your lady's dog is a typical fiesty jrt pup but without proper handling it's a bad situation.    Would they not consider a young(ish)  cat instead?   (I realise no animal at all is the ideal here,  but that may be a step too far )

Hope you can get tbe situation resolved before the inevitable happens xxx

Very difficult for you if your hands are tied then

Would she be swayed if you say that the current situation is just unsustainable and if you agree to 'rehome' him you will also look at seeing if you can sort out looking at getting them an older dog that will need less looking after but give her the companionship and love she is after ? If you take away but promise to 'try' and give back just maybe she might be persuaded ?

What a nightmare! They really need no dog at all, or at the least, an older dog of a very calm breed that won't start testing boundaries like a terrier will.

the end result was he bit her repeatedly on both arms creating bruising and bleeding.

I was nipped by a terrier a week ago, it was in fun and not aggressive as we were just playing and she got over excited. She grabbed my hand instead of the toy.
I kept the wound clean but by day two I felt so really ill all over, I could hardly walk so I was taken to the drs ( I was unable to drive myself) I had septicaemia and had to have ABs pumped straight into my veins and am now on a high dose of tablets. I still feel weak and washed out although the fevers and pain have subsided.
I worry what would happen to your elderly friend if this happened from the bites, I doubt she would have the strength to survive as it comes on so quickly. Ask her what would happen to her husband should she die from the bites of this little dog she loves so much.

I'd be worried that any bite or scratch to her legs could turn into cellulitus or an ulcer  and she'd end up in hospital.

> I worry what would happen to your elderly friend if this happened from the bites, I doubt she would have the strength to survive as it comes on so quickly. Ask her what would happen to her husband should she die from the bites of this little dog she loves so much

She is my clients wife, if she were simply a friend I would have more leeway to remove the dog. I am a carer and have to abide by her human rights and company rules and regs. She was given a course of antibiotics for the bite on her leg and is still on them when the bites to her arms occurred yesterday. And yes I have asked her what does she think will happen to husband if she were not there to care for him. Trust me I have tried argument in the book with her. I come out of that house every morning wanting to scream!

I really don't think you can reason with this lady and to be honest I think she is enjoying all the attention you are giving her regarding the dog. She is possibly ignoring all your advice so that she continues to get your attention.

Dementia is a terrible disease on many levels and I notice personality changes in my own Mother making her more childlike and making her delight in creating situations that just don't need to be created. I just bite my tongue and don't feed into any drama she may be thinking of causing and it nips it in the bud.

It must be hard for you to see this little dog being ruined but maybe take a step back and tell her you won't be involved anymore, that it's up to her now. Take away all the attention and drama around it and it might just give her enough 'headspace' to reflect on what she is doing and on what needs to be done. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, I just think a different approach might help.

Re the leg cocking, my SBT boy Spud was cocking his leg at nine weeks, you couldn't have found a less dominant dog if you tried.

I must say you have the patience of a saint, I'd have left her to it a long time ago, some people, no matter how hard you try, just won't be helped.

Just to add, I agree with Lunamoona, my Dad is very much like that, he doesn't have dementia, but he does enjoy being the centre of attention, I don't play the game and just leave him to it.

It must be hard for you to see this little dog being ruined but maybe take a step back and tell her you won't be involved anymore, that it's up to her now.

I agree. Tell her you have done all you can and that's it, it's up to her now. It would not surprise me if that led to you being asked to take the dog within a couple of weeks.

It worries me that if you take this dog away she will just get another...and another... you have done the best you can and it really is now up to her. With the best intentions you could be making things worse and she will just continue to get through one dog after another. I would be very wary of taking another "Problem" off her hands I think that as long as she knows that you will pick up the pieces she has no worries and can just hand over this problem for you to sort while she gets another one !
Step back and let her take some responsibility.
Aileen

> I would be very wary of taking another "Problem" off her hands I think that as long as she knows that you will pick up the pieces she has no worries and can just hand over this problem for you to sort while she gets another one !<br />Step back and let her take some responsibility.

Whilst I agree to the above to a degree and would say fine get on with it to most people. My lady doesn't think that way, in fact I would go so far as to say she doesn't think full stop! She only cares about what she wants. The day I said I would refuse to go back if she had another puppy her poor husband sobbed, but she did not give a damn, just shrugged her shoulders and said she did not care "well I am having a dog and you can't stop me" were her words that day. This morning I have called the doctor out to her as the antibiotics she had for the last bite have finished and I think she needs another course. I made it quite clear that this is for another dog bite, not the same one. Hopefully the doctor will have a few words for her.

I don't think you will get anywhere with her then unfortunately.

Would the doctor call social services in do you think as they would be powerless to do anything themselves ?

> Would the doctor call social services in do you think as they would be powerless to do anything themselves ?

Not sure to be honest. But at least the doctor is aware of the situation. Have spoken to her nephew this afternoon and given him a full update of the situation and he is going to tell her that if things get too bad and carers get bitten then husband could end up being taken into care as we would not be allowed in if we are "at risk". He has already told her if the dog bites him he will not do her shopping anymore.

I have a house guest Got there this morning to find Toby had bitten her again. Nasty bite on her arm. Gp has prescribed yet more antibiotics but refused to do home visit, he phoned nephew and nephew phoned me and he knows I will not return Toby to her under any circumstance. I had no choice but to remove him as the situation could not continue. She was glad that I offered to take him. I have told her that he cannot be returned to her and if I cannot get him steady then he will be pts. Toby has met my lot and was very aggressive to start off with but that is understandable as up to now he has not met dogs close up. Heck until I started taking him out for a walk last week he had not set foot outside the front door. He is in a crate and being treated as a baby re house training. I will do my best to get him sorted but only time will tell.

You deserve a medal.

Bless you. Hopefully he will get sorted with rules in place.  The aggression towards your own dogs may well be just fear based -he isn't used to other dogs so reckons he best attack first. The big worry now -will she go and get another puppy?

Well done I hope you turn him around

> You deserve a medal

I need my head read

After you have had your head read lol I just hope there is some way she can be prevented from getting another. not sure how though, that sounds like its in the lap of the gods if she knows how to answer dreadful adds from people who don't check things out .
You are doing above and beyond

> The aggression towards your own dogs may well be just fear based

Yes definitely, He thinks attack is best defence. I've had him outside with one dog at a time and he was ok, bit unsure but no growling. My lot just want to check him out but they must look like giants to Toby.

> The big worry now -will she go and get another puppy?

If she does I will need bailing out of local nick cos I will clobber her!!

Well he's a very lucky little dog, he's landed with you.

You're probably his best hope.

Poor little lad must be so confused. 

Hopefully your lady will now understand that a puppy is not for them.

Have you thought of taking photos of her bites, as a reminder of how bad things were?   (not sure if that would be allowed, but may help when the bites heal and she starts on about another dog)

> I just hope there is some way she can be prevented from getting another

I am hoping that everyone who has anything to do with her keeps telling her no. Gp has already told her she is at risk, her mental health nurse needs to tell her she can't have another dog. The nephew needs to man up as well and you can bet I won't beat about the bush either! Tomorrow she is getting cold hard facts whether she likes it or not. I confess I did not have the heart to tear a strip off her this morning.

> You're probably his best hope.<br />

I'm his only hope

> Poor little lad must be so confused.

He is, poor pup. I can't say I am fond of him, but I will do everything I can to get him sorted. He deserves a chance. It's not his fault.

> Have you thought of taking photos of her bites, as a reminder of how bad things were?   (not sure if that would be allowed, but may help when the bites heal and she starts on about another dog)

Funny you mention that, I have just said to my son that I will take photo's of her arms.

Unfortunately I don't think you're an isolated case.
An ad from a rescue popped up in my newsfeed on FB today, for a 9 month old Jack Russell in rescue because his 93 year old owner could no longer care for him!!

> Unfortunately I don't think you're an isolated case. <br />An ad from a rescue popped up in my newsfeed on FB today, for a 9 month old Jack Russell in rescue because his 93 year old owner could no longer care for him!! <img title="mad" class="fsm fsm_mad" alt="" src="/images/epx.png" />

Good lord, we all need money to live but what is wrong with these people?

Dont worry we will come and bail you out if you deck her.it must be so frustrating

> Dont worry we will come and bail you out if you deck her.it must be so frustrating

Thank you

>Good lord, we all need money to live but what is wrong with these people?

There's a facebook page for a local licensed 'petshop'

Basically, they are buying in whole litters and selling to anyone with the cash.  They had the garage converted and planning permission for change of use.

They have no conscience, all they are interested in is the money.  To them, the pups are the means of making the money, end of story.

I'm absolutely sickened by it, but it's legal.   It's a national disgrace

> I'm absolutely sickened by it, but it's legal.   It's a national disgrace

It certainly is... There has to be a way to stop this!

Quick update for you all. Well he is settling in a bit now, still a lot of growling going on but getting better. He will play with up to 3 of my dogs quite nicely after a few mins, he likes my Roscoe the most (the biggest and most gentle). He is going outside for toileting and being praised when he "goes". He has no choice on that as he is not allowed to be loose in the house. He has to earn that right. Likewise he has no opportunity to pinch things. On his evening walk he picked up a childs hat but I lifted him up off his feet and told him no and he dropped it with no fuss, got lots of praise for that.He does attempt to pick up bits of rubbish that seem to litter the streets but leaves it when told. We met a lady with a small dog (part westie) and he was very good with him. He settles at night with no barking or whining. Very early days but so far it's going ok. I must say it's feels very strange walking a small dog! Meal times are still an issue as if he has not finished his meal and my lot even look at him he gets very aggressive, but I simply remove it and that stops him. Got to my couple this morning and Marys first words were "oh I do miss him!" My answer was "well you didn't miss him when he was biting you!" Husband wanted to know if I had bought Toby back, so he got told again that I will not be bringing him back ever. I rang gp yesterday to request a home visit just so he could check Marys arm. Had to assure them that the dog would not be returned before they would agree to visit. Prescribed some more antibiotics for her.

Thank goodness you've got him,  and he's young enough to be turned around.  

Sounds like he'll respond well to clear boundaries,  a kind firm hand and patience :-)

I'm sure I wouldn't be so patient with his owners though.   You are a saint

You really do deserve a medal!! Hopefully he can now be turned round and sorted out - will you keep him or rehome him to an experienced terrier home? I do feel sorry for the couple as I would hate to be dogless, but it's definitely the best option all round. I guess you can't even bring him for a visit or they will try to keep him! Keep us posted. :-)

Well so far it's going quite well. I have begun teaching him to give me his toy ( I have him on a line so he can't run off) for a treat then throwing the toy again in the hope that he will learn giving me something of value (to him) is good. Lots of praise and patience is the order of the day. He is getting better at dropping things he finds on walks, dropping when told without any fuss. He loves meeting people, both adults and children which again is a good thing. Recall is still a bit hit and miss, I have to make sure no one is around when he is free running or he would just take off to them. On our own I am running in the opposite direction while calling him and he flies back to me for a treat!.  I think he would do well in mini agility, he has the brains and the speed! He is learning to "wait" when we need to cross roads. All little things I know but every little helps

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly.   It's been a very short time

Regarding the running off,  my youngest one is the same.   Fine if no-one about,  but if they are,  she has to go say hello.   And that involves a lot of jumping up.   Because sooo many people have encouraged her,  despite all my training and pleading

Friends and family are much harder to train,  and in some cases impossible