Hi there,

I'm hoping for some advice regarding my Chihuahua. Sorry if I waffle on, but I want to try to give you as much info as possible.
She has just turned 4 years old and has always been in good health. She is a fussy eater, and is on the slim side, weighing in at 2.5kgs (although not underweight). She had 4 pups on Friday 16th January (day 65 fm 1st mating/day 63 fm 2nd mating): The first was born naturally, but the others had to be born by C-section, as the second pup was firmly stuck. All 4 survived, although the 3 born by C-section had to be revived. Mum was really good with the one born naturally and cleaned her up and ate placenta,etc as well as chewing the cord off. She spent time licking him, etc and allowed him to nurse. She was mated with a 3lb KC reg Chihuahua, although she herself isn't registered.
Mum came through the operation well, she was kept on a drip throughout and for a while afterwards as well as her temp had dropped a lot. She responded so well that they were allowed home that evening.
Her pregnancy went well, although it was hard work making sure she ate enough throughout. Normally, she is fed on fishmonger's finest kibble and butchers wet food (although this can change as she will sometimes just stop eating and we end up changing to a different brand). She will also regularly eat our Labrador's food (Markus Mueller cold pressed). From the day of her first mating (2 at 48hrs apart) she has been on Royal Canin Starter Mousse for mother and baby (as she can be so fussy I wanted to make sure that when she did eat it was more concentrated energy). She was wormed daily fm day 40 to whelping with panacur liquid, as advised by our vet.
Prior to having pups, she has always been a true lap dog and spends most of her time on my lap sleeping. She is very attached to me and has a lovely temperment. Out of our 2 dogs, she is the dominant one...she allows all the humans in the family to take her food,etc but will growl at our other dog if he gets too close when she is eating. They play nicely together, as our Lab has learnt to lay down whilst they play, so as not to hurt her.
We brought mum and pups home that same night and she was a bit slow to interact with them (she wanted to stay on my lap), so I put her in the whelping box and encouraged her to sniff and lick at them, whilst I sat just outside the box. Every time she showed interest in them I praised her. We managed to get her to lick them enough to stimulate urination/faeces and we managed to get the pups to latch on and feed. Every time I tried to move away from the box, she would jump out and follow me, leaving the pups alone. To encourage her to stay with them I have been sleeping next to them where she can see me. Our other dog is being kept separately from her. We tried to keep the box in a quiet little used room but she won't stay there at all so atm it's in a quiet corner in our living room. The noise is kept to a minimum, but she can see that we are in the room. (The whelping box is heated via an overhead heat lamp which keeps the ambient temperature in the box at 30-31°C.) I'm also staying with her overnight and didn't sleep for the first 3 days as I was worried she might squish them (she sat on one the first evening and didn't seem to notice).
Over the first 2 days she settled down and became very attentive to the pups...feeding often and licking them. Now and then she would pant, as if too hot, so I shaded part of it which seemed to help.
Unfortunately, on the 2nd day we had lots of people knocking at the door (deliveries for neighbours) which caused our Lab to bark. This seemed to freak mum out, especially when a neighbour came into the hallway to collect their parcel (no one came anywhere near her or the room she was in, but she ran over to the door and could see them through it). This really unsettled her and she wouldn't go anywhere near the pups, even when they whined. She wouldn't leave my lap and we ended up letting her feed them on me. After a few hours and lots of praise for getting off me and seeing to the pups, she settled down again and things have been going well.
The person who was going to dog sit whilst I was on the school run let me down after 2 days, so I've been having to take her with me since Wednesday (leaving pups in heated box with slightly shaded corner if they need it). They are left for 40 mins twice a day, which I know isn't ideal, but I have no other option atm. I make sure she feeds them just before we leave and when we get back. Around day 3, her 2 front teats, which are very underdeveloped and pups can't /won't feed fm them, became rock hard and the area around them too. A trip to the vet followed, coincided with school run, although I took pups along as vet advised...and they advised me to just keep an eye on it as it wasn't red. I used warm compresses and
massage and it resolved itself after 48hrs.
For the last 2 days she has been gradually spending more and more time out of the whelping box and on my lap. As soon as they whine or she hears a noise she goes back to them and feeds /cleans them and will stay there til they're done and sometimes longer. I was okay with this as I know she's been getting too hot in there (panting) and figured that as long as they're feeding and gaining weight it's okay. The pup's birth weights were  97g, 119g 136g and 155g, and on average they're gaining between 10-15g per day....as of this lunchtime their weights were, respectively : 197g, 211g, 256g and 237g. The smallest one has gained the most. They twitch a lot in their sleep, as they should and don't cry much. They move about and seem healthy so far, although I do hear the occasional sneeze.....is this normal?
Today, mum doesn't seem to want to spend hardly any time with them and she's not responding so quickly when they make a noise. When I woke up this morning at 8am, ( l must've been so tired that I nodded off around 3am) she was on my lap, as I'm still sleeping near her, so I'm not sure when they'd last fed. She went to feed them but atm it seems that it's more because I'm encouraging her to do it, rather than it coming from her as it has been. I'm making sure she feeds them every 2 hrs and licks them afterwards...and I praise her when she does...I try to handle the pups as little as possible and keep my attention directed to her.
We had a few days where I had to cover her surgery scar as the pups were sucking on it instead of a teat and had made it really sore and also opened it up a little at which point she growled at one of them as I think he'd stuck his claws in it. She hasn't done this since I covered it and it is healing nicely, although I often have to put pups in the right place as they seem a bit daft and often latch on in the wrong place. She is fine with me handling them and her when she is with them, although I try to keep it to the bare minimum,  ie, if she's squished one, it's got stuck, or latched on wrong (I do wait to see if they notice and self correct). I praise her for being with them and have taken to feeding her in there whilst she is feeding them, as she wouldn't leave them to eat/drink at first. I'm still feeding her Royal Canin Starter Mousse, along with minced beef and ham as a treat. After the op, she kept choking when she tried to drink water and it's been a struggle to get her to have any, so much so that I spoke to the vet who suggested I try goat's milk. She loves this and doesn't choke on it..maybe because it's slightly thicker. She is drinking this about every 2 hrs (about 50ml each time) and in between she's eating about 40g Starter Mousse...about 4x per day. She has water freely available right outside her box, but won't touch it as far as I can tell.
The pups started whining just now so I encouraged her to go to them by taking her off of my lap and giving her a gentle push in their direction. She laid down to fed them, but as soon as I left the room (to check on dinner) she followed me. I let her out to the toilet and then again encouraged her to go into thrm, which she did reluctantly. In order to encourage her to stay there, I've just put a board across the entrance (which I'm sure she could jump over if she really wanted to) and I'm sitting where she can see me if she wants to. She has actually settled down and is allowing a pup to feed (the rest are spread out sleeping) although she chose to lay down away from the pups...one followed her and latched on. I've also noticed that today when they're feeding they will suddenly get quite noisy and frantic and go between different teats as though the milk has run out...is this normal and is there anything I should be doing?
Is it okay when I'm watching her to shut her in with them? Should I not be allowing her onto my lap? I don't want her to feel she's being punished but obviously I want her to care for her pups. How do I encourage her to stay with them? Any and all advice is gratefully received.

Please don't have a go at me for breeding her. It has already happened and the prospect of losing her has put me off, although it was always going to be a one time thing anyway. It was always intended to be the first and last time. She would've been spayed when the pups were 10weeks old but as she had a C-section it was done at the same time. We didn't do this for money and plan on keeping all 4 pups, although we would have a fantastic home for 2 of them if we wanted to do that ( a good friend would love to have 2 of them, she has researched the breed and has been looking for a while and would provide a great home for them...she is experienced with dogs and the costs involved. Her last dog died about 3-4 months ago and she's ready for another). I'm hoping for advice so that I can do the best for my dog and her pups. Many thanks for taking the time to read this...you deserve a medal for sticking with it,lol.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Nik

Just to add that I removed the board keeping her in and she came out immediately. One of the pups squeaked and I encouraged her to go back into them which she did...she was licking them. I left the door open and when she settled down to feed them I offered her some goat's milk which she drank. As of now she is still with them and has just adjusted how she is laying in order to let the other 2 feed. She was panting short before I let her out, so I've raised the heat lamp up a bit and provided some shade on one side of the box, which is the side she's laying on. Would be lovely if it was something as simple as being too hot ☺

I've read through it twice but still can't remember -when did she last see the vet? The panting, yes it could be being hot, but with such a large litter for her size it could also be eclampsia. Is she getting extra calcium added to her food? This is the first thing I'd worry about and it is vital.

As a toy breeder myself (different breed but not much difference in size) there are a few things that stand out to me.
1. 4 years is MUCH  too old for a first litter. The age could have contributed to the ceasarian being necessary, and also as she is clearly a much loved pet who is close to you, she's perhaps TOO much of a mummy's girl to suddenly cope with such a big change to her life. A c-section also really does throw some mums off.

2. I can't say if everyone does what I do, but I do not let my toy bitches have free run of the house or the room when pups are small -they are either in a large cage or in a puppy pen. I have two litters at the moment aged 4 ½ and 5 ½ weeks and only yesterday did I move the bitches with pups out of their cages. It's my previous experience of breeding cats for 25 years that taught me that for some mums, it simply is safer to confine them with their litter. It helps them to settle. Also I would cover at least the top and sides of the cage.

3. Under no circumstances whatsoever would I take the bitch away from week old pups for 40 minutes twice a day, and leave the house. With a bitch who has had a late first litter, a c-section, been unwell with mastitis, and is feeling unsure/insecure, it's certainly not going to help I'm afraid.

And of course point 4 -an unregistered pet bitch simply should not be bred from for any reason -but you've learnt the lesson that breeding is a lot of hard work and heartache and expense, the hard way. You did the right thing and had her spayed at the time of the section.

My course of action would be a vet visit first thing tomorrow morning (assuming she isn't starting to act ill, in which case you'd need to go straight away) to check her over, make sure you add calcium (with vitamin D) to her diet every day, confine her with the pups and stay by her side.

31C....you are cooking her.
It must be stifling in there.
Ambient room temp is 21-22C and keeping it a little warmer and draught free is advisable...but that IS hot.

She has been to the vets weekly, since week 4 of pregnancy, and was there before mating went ahead to make sure she was healthy enough to go through it. Generally, she sees the vet twice a year for a check up and has never been ill in any way. She is wormed regularly and is fit and active. She didn't have her first season til she was almost a year old and has had 2 per year since.

I have lowered the temp already, as I mentioned in my 2nd post, as the pups were also sleeping spread out from each other. It is now around 27-28°C. Is this okay? Everything I've read has said it should be between 29and 32°C for first few weeks. The general temp in the room is 22°C.

Mum seems much more comfortable and hasn't left them since she was encouraged to go in there at around  10.30pm (2hrs ago). This is the longest she has stayed in there today. I also have one corner of the box shaded fm the heat lamp which is where she is laying.

I'm also in phone contact with my vet, whenever I need some advice or reassurance, including overnight. I had also considered eclampsia previously, as she was acting strange several nights ago (when she growled at pup during the day)..shaking a little, very timid and just not herself. After calling for advice at 3am, and the vet suggesting that she was just still sore from the C-section and where pups had been sucking on it and to wait til morning and bring her in them as consult now would cost me £185 for out of hours. I said that that wasn't an issue and that I'd rather waste a few hundred than do nothing and something awful happens. So I took her and the pups in and she had a blood test done. Her Ca levels were fine (mid range)..9.9 where the range was between 7.2-12. After examining her, she definitely thought that it was due to the wound as she was still tender there and the general stress of c-section etc. She said that I'd been doing the right thing in cleaning it and keepng it covered so the pups couldn't suck on it.

Since her due date on Wednesday 14th Jan I haven't left her side (well, the room anyway). From then until Monday 19th I survived on less than 8hrs sleep, napping only when there was someone else around that could keep an eye on  her and not for longer than 3hrs at a time. From Monday til today I have averaged about 3hrs sleep a night, and only when she is settled and sleeping herself and I'm less than 3ft away fm the whelping box, so I'm able to respond to the slightest sound. I'm also up every 2-3 hrs making sure she has a drink and something to eat.

I'm not sure how I could be doing more. I have the "Book of the Bitch" and have read it many times as well as spending every spare minute online learning as much as I can and making sure I'm as prepared as I can be. I just haven't found much about mum wanting to sleep on owner as opposed to being with pups and was hoping that I'd get some good advice on here as so many of you seem to have a lot of experience. I've probably bored my vet to tears with my questions.

She is not having Ca supplements, but she is eating better and much more than she ever has in her life. She's having Royal Canin Starter Mousse (warmed) for mum and pups (about 150g-180g every 24hrs) as well as minced lamb/beef, ham and chunks of cheese as treats/snacks, goat's milk  (she's getting through a litre in about 2 1/2 days). She has free access to water, but doesn't seem to want to drink it, although she will lick it fm my fingers. She is toileting well and passing normal stools.

The children (10 and 13 yo) are kept away from her and the pups, and I only handle them to weigh them, which I do daily, or to help them latch on or get out from a corner if they're stuck. Considering that she's in our lounge, the room is kept pretty quiet and we won't be having any visitors for at least 4weeks.

Atm, she is cleaning them vigorously as they've just finished feeding. She seems very settled. She was last fed at 10.30pm and had a small bowl of goat's milk at abt 12.30am. I will offer her more food and/or milk at 3-4am and again at 6-7am. She has water available should she want it.

Anything else I should be doing?  Thanks for the replies.

Nik

I realise that it's far from ideal to take her with me on the school run (40mins, twice a day). I had previously arranged for a close family friend to stay with them whilst I was out but she has let me down.
Unfortunately, there's no one else that my dog would trust enough to have around atm. My partner managed to take a half day on Friday so that one of us could stay with her, but he's so busy at work that that won't be happening again anytime soon. It's also not practical to keep my child off school for that length of time. Any suggestions would be welcome. I briefly thought about leaving her with them but would be worried she might squish one or something. I do make sure that they've been fed just before we leave and that their box is warm enough.
The whelping box is enclosed on all 4 sides except for a small doorway on one side. It has pig rails and I tend to keep one side of the box covered so it's darker/shaded there. I did put a lid on so that it was more den-like, but was worried that it wouldn't stay warm enough as I'm using an overhead heat lamp although I do have a heat pad I could use. It is made of extremely thick cardboard (abt 5 layers and 7mm thick).

If there's anything else that I should mention, please let me know. 

Any ideas about this dilemma or suggestions gratefully received. Thanks again.

Nik

regarding the school run, is there no-one else who could take the kids for you? I didn't see how old but bus? Taxi? Other parents or family member?
then you could stay with the litter. If you can get help even for a week or 2 it would make a big difference

Unfortunately, there's no one else that could either take my child or watch my dog. The school is 12miles away and there are no direct buses, plus she's only just turned 10. The  friend that let me down had to go and stay with an elderly relative who was taken ill, so I would think that she won't be around for at least another week and I don't have anyone else close enough that my dog would trust. Any practical solutions would be gratefully received..I'm assuming that it would be a worse idea to take mum and pups with me in heated/covered box?

On a better note, lowering the temp has really made a difference, mum spent abt 90% of the night with her pups without being shut in there. She only left to toilet and have a quick cuddle (she went back to them of her own accord). She was still with them this morning and has only just jumped up for a cuddle 5 mins ago whilst the pups are sleeping. She's again responding much better to their cries. I've just weighed them, abt 30mins after feeding and they've each gained well ( between 15g and 24g). They're 10 days old today and 2 have them have more than doubled their birth weights, and the other two aren't far off (one is 10g away, the other, who was biggest at birth and got stuck in birth canal, is 34g away).

The one that got stuck (we call him Buddha for now) has definitely gained slower than the others, and he often latched on in the wrong place, although he's getting better at latching on properly since I covered the op scar and guided him to the right place. I made sure he had extra time on mum yesterday and gave him some nutri drops and he gained 19g over 22hrs. Since starting him on the nutri drops, correcting him when he latches on wrong and giving him extra time on mum, his daily weight gain has gone from 9g to 15g-19g, so he's definitely moving in the right direction.

Is very occasional sneezing a problem in the pups? I'm talking maybe once a day or less, and I don't know if it's the same pup each time.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's appreciated and I'm trying to take all your advice on board.

Nik

I have waded through as much as I can there and may have missed some of your later points, but just to pick up on a couple.

1.   Many pet bitches find switching from being a pet, to being a mum VERY difficult but the good thing with your bitch is she has been reacting to her brood when they cry and need feeding, and to their toilet needs.   We had one who totally refused to attend to the poohing - way beneath her.  She'd pee them, but the other - NO WAY with the result the poor dears were constipated and I had to deal with that for then.   Good on her in that.
2.   I do believe that the temperature you have them at is a tad too high - I tended to go with 80F although with a tiny breed, perhaps it needs to be higher?   We draped a sheet over the back of the box (we had a brood lamp over the 4 X 4 initial section) so mum could get out from under.   If she's not with them all the time, however, it's vital they stay warm - newborn puppies cannot regulate their own heat.
3.  We stayed with our litters, pretty much to the time they went home but certainly for the first 3 weeks before they were moved into the kitchen and the second 4 X 4 section added for more space.  Some of our bitches would sleep with their litters for longer than others.   And we based what we did re our own sleeping arrangements, around each one.   And even each litter, from the same bitch, could be different.  We had no trouble with one with her first litter.   But with the second, for some reason she reacted strongly if a puppy, eyes not open, ventured anywhere near her head.  For that reason we were on it all the time, just in case - and that was her final litter!!
4.  Re the possibility of eclampsia - normally that wouldn't occur, if at all, until the puppies were taking loads of milk and that probably shouldn't happen after only a few days?

I think that as long as she's attending to them when needed, you'll just have to go with what works for her and that means if she won't stay with them, which is a pain, then don't upset her by trying to force this.   Too bad about the visitors early days ...... and keep your other dog RIGHT AWAY from where she is with her litter or not only might she go for him, she could turn on her own pups in a misguided attempt to protect them.

I'm not going to knock you for breeding her but for others, fact is some pet bitches do find it difficult to switch off being 'a pet' and switch on being a mother.

ps  Reading a later comments, good job lowering the temperature in the box - if the puppies were laying around separately, it was clearly plenty warm, never mind mum's reaction.  Also re the school run, as long as mum isn't with them alone (you take her with you so if they cry, she can't hear!!), and the other dog isn't ANYWHERE NEAR the litter, I can't see there's too much harm leaving them, provided the power doesn't go out!!!   Once they are up and moving around, you will need to make sure they are confined so they can't escape when you are not there!

Thanks for your reply. Our other dog is 2 rooms away from her at the other end of the house and isn't allowed anywhere near her, although she can hear him bark...my children are staying with him in the other tv room so that he has company and I've given him one of the towels from the birthing time with the pups' scent on so that he gets used to them. He's still getting plenty of attention so that he doesn't feel resentful. When I leave them I could also put a microwave heat pad (which I bought for journeys to the vet) in with them in case the power fails.

She was on my lap, first time this morning, and one pup just made a sound and she jumped straight off and is now laying down with them and letting them feed, so that's good news...looks like it was an issue with the heat.

She is not having Ca supplements, but she is eating better and much more than she ever has in her life.

Glad you've had her levels checked. I don't give calcium supplements to my large breed bitches, but I do with the toys, to play safe. I have seen eclampsia and it can hit so fast.

Re the possibility of eclampsia - normally that wouldn't occur, if at all, until the puppies were taking loads of milk and that probably shouldn't happen after only a few days?

Normally, no, but it CAN happen. The most common scenario would be a small bitch with a large litter 3 weeks or so after whelping, but according to the Merck manual, and I copy and paste: The incidence is increased in small breeds of dogs, although puerperal hypocalcemia can occur in any breed of dog, with any size litter, and at any time during lactation. Rarely, it occurs during late gestation in bitches

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/metabolic_disorders/disorders_of_calcium_metabolism/puerperal_hypocalcemia_in_small_animals.html

So always as well to bear it in mind at any point.

I'm glad you've got her settled.
You want the pups to snuggle up to mum for a lot of their warmth, additional heat source is background and for times when mum pops out.
The reason I don't like overhead heat is its hard to escape the 'cone' of radiant heat (I much prefer a heat pad with a fleecy cover for a warm place to settle if they need it) and if mum moves away for comfort the pups may scatter.
Rule of thumb: you want the pups settled and JUST touching.....heaped up and writhing they are too cold....all spread out and away from mum/each other ..too hot.

Thanks tooolz. Yeah, she seems much better today and is choosing to be with them most of the time (~90% at least). The pups are now sleeping as you said was best: slightly touching each other. They seem very content. I've turned the over head heat lamp off and put the heat mat on medium, which covers abt 1/3 of the floor area. I've also put the lid down fully so that bar a 6" wide x10" high doorway the box is now fully enclosed.  It's made of thick cardboard which has good insulating properties. Since the puppies were born our room temp is kept at 22°C day and night. Without the heat lamp on and just the heat mat on instead, the ambient temperature inside the box is reading 25°C (about 2" above the floor level). On floor level by heated portion it is reading 28°C.  Is this okay? They're still sleeping spread out fm each other but slightly touching. I will, of course, put the overhead one on when I leave them for the school run as mum isn't about.

Regards, Nik.

Nik, I think you've cracked it...now just watch and enjoy.

Just an update, and I wanted to thank everyone for the friendly, helpful advice you've given.
I was really nervous about posting on here in case I just got criticised and put down for breeding when my dog isn't regisitered ( I have experienced such previously on other forums when posting about other things..not dogs...some sites are just very clicky). So, thank you for making me feel welcome and for the great advice

Angel is doing really well. I'm still sleeping downstairs with her, but she's choosing to spend the night with her puppies, as opposed to on my lap, which is fab!
She's feeding them well, cleaning them up and generally being very attentive. She still has cuddles during the day, but if the pups move or cry, she jumps straight off and attends to them (she can see them from my lap). She's also choosing to stay with them for a while after she's finished her "duties", which is lovely.

We had a small blip yesterday, when I took her into the garden for some fresh air, and a strange dog came out of nowhere, snarling and barking (looked like fear aggression). It was the dog fm 2 doors away, and had managed to jump 2 lots of 5ft fencing. It's been doing it since they moved in Sept last year, but I thought I'd managed to block it's entry. The owner's aren't interested in sorting it out, and don't even try to recall it. I've also found it out in the road several times too. It really spooked Angel and she wouldn't get off my lap or go anywhere near the pups for about an hour afterwards. I managed to tempt her back to them by sitting with her, giving her lots of praise and some roast lamb as a reward.

She seems to enjoy the fuss she gets on the school run, but is equally happy to get back to her pups.

Once again, thanks for all the support.

Nik.
For some reason, it keeps deleting half my post when I  post it. Weird, or what?. Hopefully this will work (I'm going to try and copy and paste it).

> I was really nervous about posting on here in case I just got criticised and put down for breeding when my dog isn't regisitered

I will advise that most people here do disapprove of breeding unregistered pedigree puppies, as breeding should be about improving/maintaining the integrity of the breed, and for that you need to have thorough breed knowledge, traceable lineage, and the possibility of going forward within the breed.

But what's done is done and you are caring for the Mum and pups well.

The next obstacle is finding homes that hopefully will not go on to exploit your babies as the breed is very popular in the hands of 'greeders/puppy producrers' (people breeding purely for money). 

Many such people will see them as an easy way to make money and buy cheaply compared to registered puppies.

It can be frustrating to read that someone has banged their two pets together and want us to tell them how to sort out their problems ..... many contributors are justifiably critical.
You have clearly tried hard to do all you can for mum and her little family, well done for reaching out to learn what's best for them.
Not everyone's first litter is perfectly managed...that is how many of us have learned...the hard way.