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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / C-section at 55 days bad mum has little milk
- By Misslils1972 [gb] Date 21.01.15 02:55 UTC
Has anyone any suggestions pours born today at 55 days by c-section their was nine bit sadly we lost:-( mums hasn't got much mild so trying to rotate bad top up with bottle still seem very lethargic any suggestion please
- By Brainless [gb] Date 21.01.15 08:57 UTC Upvotes 1
I would not expect much evidence of milk right after birth.  it is important that al pups get colostrum in first hours.

Keep putting pups on every hour and ensure they are actually sucking properly and have most of the teat and surrounding area in their mouths and are latched on.  Only suckling will stimulate milk.

Pups ma need waking as they may be lethargic due to the effect of the General anaesthetic.  I'd expect up to a 10% weight loss the first day, regain second day and from then on a gain.

Please explain what bad means in your posts as it doesn't make sense in the sentence, or title???
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 21.01.15 09:32 UTC Upvotes 1
We've had a few C.Sections over the years (mums went into secondary inertia) but in every case, mums provided for their litters from the moment they came home.  Thank goodness (one was a litter of 9 which had they needed bottling/tubing, would have been very hard work!).   Fact is early on, newborn puppies don't actually need that much milk, and provided mum was properly fed through her pregancy, eventually the milk should come down (the act of nursing stimulates this).   It's vital the puppies get mum's first milk in any case, so regardless, you really must try to get them all nursing.  

I'm having difficulty understanding all of your post I'm afraid.    Who is 'lethargic' - mum is bound to be out of it for a while and the puppies won't exactly be charging around yet and may also be groggy from the anaesthetic mum needed.   I hope you have them all in a warm whelping box - the ambient temperature should be no less than 80F - newborn puppies can't regulate their own temperature, and mum is recovering from surgery so must be kept warm too.

Now is the time to call in your mentor, but if you are not happy about what's going on, you must call your vet.
- By Misslils1972 [gb] Date 21.01.15 16:55 UTC
My vet has been with me constantly by phone the puppies wouldn't feed from being premature and mum doesn't have much milk so it was a struggle getting them  to suckle lost two but the other are ok ATM , sorry my post didn't make sense but been up for 48 hours without having sleep that onto of the worry , I'm sure I don't make sense. I'm not new to breeding I'm new to this scenario
- By tinar Date 21.01.15 21:14 UTC
I'm not a breeder so you need to take mambas and brainless etc advice on that but I did help out with a litter of a Mum had a C-section, 2 were born mummified and 2 healthy - mum had no milk for 3 days - pups had to be bottle fed and then also put on the teat to try help quieten them between feeds and stimulate mum's milk. Mum was very lethargic for 2 days - pups for 1 - though from the minute mum woke from anaesthetic vet said she was trying to get to the pups and lick them before she could even move her head.

The mum carried on cleaning them and letting them try to feed but she had no milk at all (despite injections from vet to help the milk along - 1 after C-section and one a day and a half later).  Pups had to be bottle fed and cried quite a lot in between feeds - they were being fed small amounts every 30-45 mins if I remember right (vet wrote down times and amounts to aim for etc etc I don't remember all that as it was a while ago now) - but I helped with the bottle feeding....- we still returned pups to mum immediately and helped them on the teat to try to stimulate milk etc.  On the evening of day 3 Penny (mum) got up while her owner was bottle feeding one pup and me the other - she just walked over and sniffed the pup and suddenly pushed the bottle away and put nearly the whole pups head in her mouth (ever so gently and slowly). We put the pup down and hey presto pup went to teat and started feeding - milk had arrived. And it was clear the milk arrived since for 3 days solid the pups had whined when at the mums teat - quietened at the bottle and swiftly whined/cried again until the next feed - as soon as pup went on the teat that 3rd day though the room just went silent - and sure enough its because mum had milk.

I only say this to reassure you that mum may not have much milk now but its a good sign she has any at all so soon after C-section  - it doesn't mean she wont have a change and produce more in a couple of days. I'm sure pups and mum will both show you when she hopefully is able to feed them more.

Listen to the others as I know nothing of breeding other than that one C-section litter I helped with but I only write to say don't panic - take each feed as it comes - 1 at a time - the milk may well arrive in plentiful supply soon. But if you are worried keep on ringing that vet or get them to come and take a look - anything that puts your mind at rest.

Best of luck honey - I know the lack of sleep is going to be a nightmare but hopefully things will start a turn for the better soon.  Really hope everything goes well for you.  You're in my thoughts xx
- By Goldmali Date 21.01.15 21:51 UTC Upvotes 1
56 days isn't really premature unless she took later on. Premature pups won't have a proper sucking reflex yet. I have two pups born day 65 from first mating and despite this they could not suck for the first four days so I had to drop milk onto their tongues one drop at a time -they were able to swallow. Now 4 weeks old and onto solids but the smallest dog pup was rejected by his mum and is still in need of the occasional bottle despite having a foster mum (with pups one week older).

Breeding is very hard work and a lot of heartache. Hope the rest of your pups make it.
- By JeanSW Date 21.01.15 23:19 UTC Upvotes 3
I have a breed that naturally whelps on day 56 so I think nothing of it.  I once had a bitch that had no interest after a section and I was worried that I would be hand rearing the litter without help.  This is donkeys years ago and a CD'er with another toy breed phoned me with her suggestions.  So I sat on the floor with my feeding stuff and had a small dog bed to put the pups in as I finished each one.  My bitch took no notice at all until her milk came in on day 4, when she jumped in the small bed and shoved the pups under her.  So don't feel that all is lost.  :lol:
- By LouiseDDB [gb] Date 22.01.15 20:36 UTC
This is frenchies for you, a whole different ball game. Are they dehydrated, do you have a foster, does mum have anything? If not I'd suggest a foster and I would tube feed, have had huge success with this in my recent litter. Albeit having to only feed her on 2 occasions this way, but I was amazed at how easy it was to do and how quick she perked up. Pup also has to expend no energy to get the nutrients, I had the royal canin hyrdation powder and expressed from mum. YouTube, showed me how it's done.
- By Goldmali Date 23.01.15 00:18 UTC
Please be aware that tube feeding CAN kill, and quickly. :cry: I lost count of the number of times I was told to tubefeed kittens by other breeders -I have handreared dozens upon dozens of kittens over 25 years. I have watched videos of how to tube feed, I have been told by people, I have been to a seminar with a vet that explained in detail. Every single time I tried tube feeding the kitten died. It was as sure as having it put to sleep. I'm not talking just the odd time, I must have tried ten times at least and every single one died. Tried once with a puppy as well (Mali so much bigger than a kitten), ended up being the ONLY puppy I have EVER had die AFTER birth. (The few others I have lost have all been stillborn.) Sometimes it would be okay for perhaps 3 or 4 feeds, sometimes even a few days, but then it would invariably die. One even died whilst being tubefed -and the tube was NOT down the wrong way. Last time I tried was June last year in my last ever litter of kittens. That kitten took several feeds and seemed fine, but the last time I left him and then came back to give the next feed he was dead -and stone cold and stiff so must have died very soon after the last feed. Then last month I got my tiny and weak pup rejected by his mum, unable to suckle, and again I wondered -was tube feeding the only way? When Googling I came across an article that explained just WHY tube feeding so easily kills, and having read that, I will never attempt it again. You have to scroll down to the to the relevant part; "To tube or not to tube".
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/feeding.html
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 23.01.15 10:42 UTC
Re tube feeding, something I've never done incidentally, I know of many many breeders who, especially with big litters, find tube feeding was successful, and definitely less time-consuming than bottling.   You have to have a viable puppy, not a weak one, and know how to get the tube into the 'right place'.   But reading that article, I find it does rather give the wrong impression re success or not.    So I'd not rule out feeding this way.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / C-section at 55 days bad mum has little milk

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