I had a litter of 3 recently and kept them very close to my chest, so didn't advertise until very last minute. And only on champdogs, plus didn't want lots of phone calls from unsuitables around Xmas. I have sold one to a local pet home and I'm keeping one myself. I have lots of interest in the litter but a close friend would like one so he isn't available. My only issue is one testicle isn't descended yet. I have kept hold of them both to chose the best one and this is not the only reason but a big one that he isn't staying. Few other things make him 2nd to his sister conformationally wise.

Now they are not even 10 weeks yet so I know there is plenty of time yet for them to drop, but should I lower price? She is a friend and he will be pet home, shown if it does drop. They are local as well so I would be able to take him in the ring. Mothers brothers were all down by the time they left and so have any other males puppies I have had. My vets had a good feel and cannot find it. But I'm aware that if it never does the added cost of having to get him the chop. Although toy breed so not astronomical. Am I just worrying because she is a friend?

Why would you lower the price, I assume all pups are sold the same as companions? 

Having one testicle does not impact on suitability as a companion, only if the owner had aspirations to show, so don't sell as show prospect.

Well I would worry if the vet cannot feel it at all, because then it's far less likely that it will ever appear. If it can be felt a couple of inches away then fair enough, but not at all probably means it is deep inside. I have done, and others in my breed have too, reduced the price for such a pup, as after all neutering will eventually (no rush though) be necessary, and it will be more expensive than usual -possibly quite a bit more depending on how long the vet has to spend playing find the ball. There are different ways of doing it -either reduce the price at time of sale or pay towards the cost of neutering (a figure agreed in ADVANCE) at the time. But put it in writing, doesn't matter how good a friend it is.

Last time I had a pet pup with just one testicle I found NOBODY wanted to buy him even as a pet exactly because of the neutering costs (and I had a LOT of enquiries for pets at the time). In the end he ended up going as a pet for free to my daughter. His testicle never did drop and it was one that could not be felt at all.

I suppose, not quite perfect item mentality. I have no idea why I think like this. I sold a bitch 2years ago with umbilical hernia although small. For a little less, all endorsed anyway and her was never to be lifted. Born and raised the same, and a lovely puppy.

Just have to get that idea out of my head.

I did think about assisting to neuter if needed and set an age that if it's not down by then. They are a popular breed so I don't think I will have anyone not wanting to buy him if she does decline, have a few other homes lined up via word of mouth. She wants a pet for a companion anyway and show a plus. She has never shown before just something she has taken interest in.

Cost to neuter not likely to reach anymore than what I would knock of the price

I don't think vets are especially good at locating testicles in tiny pups ..by palpating.
If I can't find a testicle and the puppy is destined as a pet, I offer to have MY vet castrate at 12 months at my expense.
Never had anyone EVER take me up on it as they have always come down.

One of mine had one testicle and we had him neutered. I paid full cost . on the show side he could still be shown as a neuter if your friend wanted. I am sure goldmali or brainlesscan give you info on that if your friend wanted to have a taste of showing

I would simply not sell the pup to someone who wanted to have a go at showing but suggest they look elsewhere, and place this pup in a purely companion home, ot avoid any chance of disappointment.

I bought Zuma in 2007 at 14 weeks, he only had 1 down, I had no interest in showing apart from the odd companion/fun show. His breeder reduced the price by £50 towards neutering later if it hadn't come down.
He ended up just having the 'lost' one removed - at no extra cost - when he had abdominal surgery at 17 months.

Talking as a non-shower, non-breeder (who also bought a pup with undescended testicles with a hope to show if they appeared) - no -I don't think you should change your price.  You are selling a well bred pup to a hopefully loving home. Set your price and stick to it. If you had a litter of 10 pups, all perfect and showing good potential would you sell half at one price and half at a different price purely dependent on whether they are likely to be shown or not? How about one price for a pet owner, one for a shower, and one for an agility enthusiast etc etc the list could go on and on. You shouldn't vary pricing. You should sell to all persons for the same price. The only thing you should do is tell any potential owner if, in your view, the pup is suitable for show or not and let them decide whether to purchase or not.

Your friend presumably already knows the pup has an issue and still wants it?  Has she even mentioned a reduction in price?  If you want to reduce the price out of kindness or love for your friend that's fine. But I don't think you are in any way ethically obligated to reduce the price on the basis of whether neutering is necessary when it comes to pet owners since most pet owners would neuter anyway. All you are obliged to do is give the purchaser all the information honestly about the pup and then let them decide.

(p.s - my boy had to have stomach operation to look for testicles which weren't there at all in the end - he is a westie so not a large breed but not toy either - and it cost only £50 more than a normal neuter - one important thing to note is that if your friend insures the pup BEFORE he is 12 weeks old then the operation in fact is covered by insurance when a normal neuter is not - if insured after 12 weeks it isn't covered by any insurance - I insured my pup at 12 weeks and 1 day that is how I know that!)

I agree with your comments in general tinar however the  cost of neutering and removing a testicles in the case of my gsd was around £350 as the "lost " one  was in the abdomen and he had major surgery in comparison to a straight neuter.
In view of that I think it is something to discuss as not everyone would expect to have such a large bill to pay after buying a dog.
Thank you for your input Brainless very valid as usual . One way of looking at the showing aspect is if that what she wants then she should be looking a dog suitable to show and a single testicle is not sitable.Also if she were then to decide to breed and not neuter would that be wise ?
as a matter of interest how common is this? Is it more common in some breeds than others ?

Just realised I overlooked the insurance aspect and yes I was able to claim for it,

Yes you can show neutered dogs - it has been possible to show spayed bitches for years, with KC 'permission'.   However with a dog with no testicles, unless he was outstanding and had no 'entire' competition of similar quality, wouldn't be placed very high in the final line-up, if at all.   So showing would for sure, only be 'for fun'.

Secondly, in view of how people feel about 'perfect' these days and a reluctance to buy into a pup who will potentially need surgery later on, I think I'd hold onto the pup and get the neutering done myself.   You won't get top price for the dog, and the surgery will cost you, but you should get a permanent loving pet home for him, and since I had my hands badly burnt by selling two puppies I'd bred to a fellow breeder, for me I'd NEVER repeat that.   For any money.   The home comes first.

She is not looking for a dog to show, she wants a companion for her own and would show him if she could. Her own is not quite right for the ring and his movement is poor. When I had my babies she said she would like the boy.

I agree with your comments in general tinar however the  cost of neutering and removing a testicles in the case of my gsd was around £350 as the "lost " one  was in the abdomen and he had major surgery in comparison to a straight neuter.
In view of that I think it is something to discuss as not everyone would expect to have such a large bill to pay after buying a dog.

Indeed, and this is why nobody was prepared to buy my pet pup -despite being of a popular toy breed. The extra cost. Vets differ of course as we all know, but many do charge a lot more as essentially a male castrate becomes like a castrate AND a spay -with searching involved.

Years ago (2004) I had a male kitten who did not drop either of his testicles and my then vet quoted £200 to neuter him. Normal price would have been £30. So I reduced his price drastically when he was sold.

My current vet posted photos on Facebook last year of a neutering op for a bitch. When she was opened up they found two testicles and a penis inside her! You just never know for sure what is what until the dog is on the operating table. So I would still say it is vital for everything to be put into writing.

"however the  cost of neutering and removing a testicles in the case of my gsd was around £350 as the "lost " one  was in the abdomen and he had major surgery in comparison to a straight neuter."

That is the same surgery my westie had - who had neither testes - and after searching his abdomen all the way through they couldn't find any sign of either - the vet described it as major abdominal surgery too but I was charged £150   - and if I had insured him at 12 weeks (and not 12 weeks and 1 day as I did) - I would've been able to claim all that money back through insurance minus the excess as that operation is considered a medical necessity as opposed to a normal neuter which is never covered by insurance.  Perhaps that's a good compromise for breeders in similar cases maybe? they could offer to cover the excess on the insurance for the operation if it is required, or refund the equivalent money as the excess. That would be somewhere around £50-£80 depending on the policy I would think? NOT that I think a breeder ethically HAS to offer anything other than open honesty at the time of sale .... I would NEVER have dreamt of asking for any money back or for concessions in any way shape or form for any dog I bought no matter what. Sold as seen - loved upon collection is the way I work. Pup has an illness? then I bought it, live with it, love it, deal with it and accept complete responsibility for it. I'm guessing that maybe not all puppy buyers are the same from the experiences I have read you have all had..... The only time I think a breeder should be held responsible for the health of a pup after sale is for those that dishonestly and knowingly sell a poorly, disabled or terminal pup (dishonestly being the key word).

You poor breeders have dealt with some really rotten, picky, responsibility-shirking and tight-fisted puppy buyers from what I can see and have read - you all deserve a medal for putting up with them let alone the way you all worry about doing right by them above and beyond the call of duty.

Sell your friend the pup at the price you agreed as long as she knows about the issue, realises the possible operation and cost involved and decides to still buy the pup even with that knowledge.

Good thought tinar. I had forgotten unintentionally that as we were insure I didn't actually pay more than the excess which would probably have been less that a birnal neuter. I did expect my breeder to help either it was just one if those things and unknown at time of sale.breeders vet had said there were two

Think this is going to be down too discussion with your friend many diffetent views and god points beung made here and if she does have him to make sure he is insured just in case the testicle does need removing. If she wants him because he is yours and she knows and trusts your breeding rather than going elsewhere that will also make a difference

I'm not sure that insurance would cover the removal of a retained testicle in this case since it hasn't yet descended. They could justly claim it was a pre-existing condition ...

hi ridgielover - the insurance will cover it - not completely sure why but it is something to do with the fact that its not classed as a condition between birth and 12 weeks since they believe it is common for dogs to not drop or drop both until after that time and it has to be an "apparent and known" condition prior to date of insurance cover for it to be classed as pre-existing - that said the insurance companies will only cover if you bought the dog and insured it straight away and prior to 12 weeks so there is a very small window of time they cover the condition in that sense - although of course the dog doesn't need to be booked for any op until a vet says so which is generally at about 6 months before they will say its necessary.  But people should check their policies - I just know this was the case for me and it is the case on both Pet Plan Insurance and More Than (or at least it was when I last looked and on more than - and definitely still is on pet plan on premium cover as I just looked on my policy docs).

I'm not sure that insurance would cover the removal of a retained testicle in this case since it hasn't yet descended. They could justly claim it was a pre-existing condition ...

That's what I thought but sure enough reading Pet Plan's policy online it does state a pup who was insured before 12 weeks will be covered for treatment regarding retained testicles. I would imagine though that many others may not be as generous! It is such an easy get out clause, it's a big surprise really that it hasn't been heard about before. I can't help wondering if they will end up changing the policy if a lot of people start to claim for it. But until such a day, definitely something to bear in mind.

How interesting! Thank you, I hadn't realised that.

Tricky one regarding insurance. I was with more than andw the dog had two confirmed by breeders vet unfortunately later this was proved not be the case so when I insured it was in good faith .I guess its complicated by the fact that a dog could be seen to only have one early on and the other not appear until much later I was advised as much as a year. Fortunately I insured from day one and there was no problems.I can see how an insurance company could quibble they manage to in many things