Hi all,

I've done a little showing before, though not much.

I'm torn between entering an open show quite close to me where my breed has no classes on offer - so would have to enter Avnsc - or going to one a bit further where the bred has 3 classes on offer.

If I go to the show further away the youngest class on offer is junior - my pup will be 6 months 3
Wks -
Is it worth entering junior? Does junior still count as a puppy class? There is an Av puppy class - can I enter this and junior breed class?

Confused.com

Even if your beaten in Junior, if your the highest placed puppy you will challenge for Best Puppy in breed with any puppies in any other breed class.  Best Puppy in breed will take you forward to group completion.

You can enter 5teh AV puppy also/instead, but a win there does not take you through to further completion.

For 1st of January should you be beaten in the AV class, but still get BPIB in breed classes you can still go forward to group competition.

I'd enter both as classes likely to be small and over with all too quickly.

Good for you not piling in at Championship show level with a puppy!!   So many people don't start low these days, and often get put off when they don't do what they hope for.   Years ago, nobody bothered to enter a Champ.show until/unless they started doing some significant winning at Open shows ...... yes, I know show entries are high, so why bother with the Open shows, but as said, in order to avoid disappointment, especially for the novice exhibitor, it's often far better to support the Open shows to cut your teeth on.

Whether you go for Junior and not puppy AVNSC classes would depend on whether numerically your breed is high, so you might find yourself up against older youngsters with your baby.   Whether you do the AV Puppy class would be up to you although I'd not enter in too many classes with a puppy who is new to the ring.    If there are classes scheduled for the breed at the show, you'd not be able to enter AV-NSC (not separately classified) in any case.

On balance, to make these first outings enjoyable for both of you, I'd go locally and put him in AVNSC Puppy, assuming there is one, and see what happens.   At this point it's all about experience after all!!   I ssume you've had him to Ringcraft?

I'd not enter in loads of classes with a puppy - again you don't want to put him off showing!!

ps   If he won Junior (with no breed Puppy classes on offer) and was the only puppy in that class he would be an unbeaten puppy.  So could go in, later on if you wanted to hang around that long, for Best Puppy in Group.

I think that is where I was getting confused - I thought that as there was no breed puppy class on offer only junior we would not be able to go on to try for best puppy (if somehow we were lucky enough to win of course - in not
Presumptuous just like to know the rules)!

Personally I prefer breed classes to AV, so I would go to the one further away to enter the breed class.
This is just my own preference, the choice is yours...most of all enjoy yourself, whatever you decide.

AVNSC is commonly referred to as "Any Variety Not Seriously Considered" and personally I have found it to be very true -it's a waste of time to enter those classes. Shows with breed classes however ALWAYS need to be encouraged as if not enough people enter, the classes WILL be removed, so it is very important indeed to support shows that do put on classes for your breed. So I'd definitely go for the show further away with breed classes. :)

Thanks all.

I just wasn't sure if it was worth putting a 6 month old in a junior class. It's either a 20 min journey or 2 hour - though not too fussed by the distance. Will check with hubby ;-) but think we will do the breed class :-)

mamabas - if she won junior would it still matter if she was the only puppy in the class or not?

At Open show, a Junior class will very often have puppies in it. In my main breed it isn't even uncommon to have just ONE single breed class, i.e.Open (in fact I have had that happen in both my breeds even though Papillons usually have much larger entries than Malinois) so then a puppy could potentially come up against Champions -but you will find that when there are few classes, they do not expect many entries. But the more people who enter and get the numbers up, the more likely the organising society is to keep the classes and even increase them in future.

In other words; judges at open shows would fully expect to find puppies in Junior. :)

if she won junior would it still matter if she was the only puppy in the class or not?

Without a puppy class as well, no - she'd not only have won Junior, but would be an 'unbeaten puppy' if she won that class and there were other puppies in Junior too.   I'm confusing myself!!   As the winner of Junior, she'd be able to challenge for BOB with the other class winners.    If she won Junior as a puppy, she'd be able to challenge for Best Puppy in Group

Add -    If you were the only puppy in the Junior class, with no puppy class, even if you didn't win the class, you'd still have an 'unbeaten puppy' (by another puppy) so as I see it, could go forward to the Puppy in Group competition?

There may be several pups in the junior class and if a pup is placed then the highest placed pup can challenge for best puppy in breed and if no pups are placed in the junior class then they can all challenge for best puppy.

I'm getting more and more confused about this  LOL

If none of the puppies in Junior is placed (would a Junior Class at open show level, with no separate Puppy class for the breed, have that number entered that none was a puppy?),  there'd surely then have to be a challenge for Best puppy.   And then that Best Puppy would go forward for BPIG.

(would a Junior Class at open show level, with no separate Puppy class for the breed, have that number entered that none was a puppy?),

Very unlikely indeed, even in the most popular breeds.

Further to this discussion and on a different tangent -  as all the ramifications of breed v AVNSC have been covered ;-) -  if you go to the show with breed classes,  then you are more likely to meet people with dogs of the same breed.   This can be enormously helpful regarding grooming and presentation :-)    It's a great way to make friends in the breed.  In most breeds anyway :-)  

You may also meet a Champion or two of your breed and that can be enormously helpful in 'getting your eye in'  :-)

For what it's worth,  I would support the breed classes.   As others have said,  it's use them or lose them.   And of course,  you'd also have a chance of going for best puppy etc ;-)

Good luck whatever you choose,  and don't forget,  it's supposed to be fun :-D

I meant if there were say three pups entered in a junior class that had eight exhibits present and none of the pups are placed they are then able to challenge for best puppy in breed along with any other puppies in the breed that have not been beaten by another puppy. Not something that happens often but I have known it happen.

I'd got there Nova LoL.   But the more I tried to get my head round all this, the more 'confused' I made myself!!!

All you need to think about is have you been beaten by another puppy, if not you can challenge for best puppy in breed and it does not matter if you are not placed all puppies unbeaten by another puppy can challenge

Wow - thanks guys.

It should prove interesting! I shall let you know the results!

- I'm guessing puppy is any dog under 12 months - so I will need to keep checking my catelogue ?

I'm guessing puppy is any dog under 12 months - so I will need to keep checking my catelogue ?

From 6 months and up to and including their first birthday. The ring steward SHOULD keep tracks of if any puppies are entered in any non-puppy classes, but it never hurts to check yourself as it does happen at times that they miss one. I was in Junior at one Open show and had checked the catalogue and knew my pup was the only puppy there, but a best puppy was never called out, so I had to go into the ring and point out that we were there and eligible for BP. :) But that is the one and only time it has happened. Normally stewards are very good at checking.

> From 6 months and up to and including their first birthday.

And that's to the first day of the show. So on the last day of a 4 day show, the best puppy could be a year and 3 days old.

And that's to the first day of the show. So on the last day of a 4 day show, the best puppy could be a year and 3 days old.

Yes for championship shows but we are talking about open shows hence one day shows. :)

I know of some open shows which were held over 2 days, usually at agricultural shows.