Wasn't too sure whether to put this in Health or in here but I think I'd appreciate breeders experience rather than buyers experience.

Ok so I have imported 2 pups (I have a numerically tiny breed so new blood was badly needed) they were whelped and raised outdoors and I suspect taken from mum far too early, possibly as early as 4 weeks old. The temperatures in Germany have been far colder than here and I'm not convinced they've been fed as often as puppies should be.

They are 16 weeks and are far smaller than I'd expect. My current adult girl and boy were 22-23" tall and 23-26kg respectively at the same age. These guys are 18-19" and 15/16kg. They are not underweight, have been wormed accordingly are eating well (although poo is sloppier than I'd like but time should resolve this) and are active, alert and playful as puppies are at this age. They just seem more like 11 or 12 week old pups rather than 16 week olds.

Anyone come across this before? Is it because they were whelped and raised outdoors and perhaps only fed enough to survive but not thrive and grow as they should? Will this have stunted their growth in any way or should I expect them to catch up over the next couple months?

Thanks

Sounds like they have not been very well reared. It may also have to do with parents size. What size were they ? are they up to the accepted height for the breed.
They don't sound like a good prospect for future breeding. Those first few weeks are so important, why were they removed from Mum so early ? They needed her to teach them about being dogs.
I had a litter 2 years ago during a very cold spell (think -7 day after day) they had a nice indoor area and access to a large outside pen. They spent most of the time outside. They grew huge coats and were fit well up to size robust pups. They were well fed and properly reared and it had no effect at all on how they grew. The one I kept has always had a wonderful coat, she is well boned up to size and very robust at 2 years old.
I would seriously doubt the source you have got these pups from.
In a numerically small breed it is even more imperative that the breeding stock imported is of excellent quality.
The future of the breed will suffer if the best is not used.
Aileen

I agree it doesn't sound like they have been reared as well as I would have hoped. They are from very old school breeders who have imported their working stock directly from Turkey and the bitch was imported in whelp. They were bred to be working dogs so are routinely taken from mother very early on to be socialized with livestock that they will be protecting, it is thought the earlier the better as they want the dog to bond with the livestock and not with humans.

Both mum and dad are large examples (dad being especially large) so I would expect these pups to make at least minimum requirements for both height and weight. I have no concerns or doubts about the source more to do with their husbandry and unfortunately with the import law being as it is the earliest I could get them here was 15 weeks old.

I guess like anything else time will tell just concerned that some lasting damage may have been done physically. Mentally they are fantastic...act exactly as pups should and are very respectful of adult dogs. Luckily I have a bitch that has had a litter of similarly aged pups so she is keeping them in line :)

As long as they were not suffering malnutrition they should make whatever is their genetic size.  I assume that you know they are definitely 16 weeks and not had their ages falsified for Pet Travel scheme rules, as 16 weeks is the youngest they can legally enter UK if things done by the book??

> I assume that you know they are definitely 16 weeks and not had their ages falsified for Pet Travel scheme rules, as 16 weeks is the youngest they can legally enter UK if things done by the book??

A very valid point. I myself have seen a puppy that barely had all its baby teeth, and yet its passport claimed it was 20 weeks of age!

I was going to say that in both my breeds, dogs are often much smaller abroad -but then I noticed you said both parents were good sizes. I don't have any experience in dogs, but I once bred a cat who went to a home where he wasn't fed as well as here. He came back at almost a year of age, underweight and very small for his age. We thought he'd be small forever but he actually literally doubled in size despite being officially adult when he came back. All it took was good food and care.

Well that's good to hear Goldmali, think I'm probably just worrying about nothing.

They literally look like 11 or 12 weeks (all puppy teeth still intact too) but I do know they are 16 weeks. I picked them at 30 days old and have pictures from then onwards (pinto marked so 100% identifiable from the very young pics) but without actually anything else in the photo for reference I didn't pick up how small they were. But like I say perfectly proportioned just maybe 20-30% smaller than I'd imagine at 16 weeks. In all honesty if I hadn't seen pictures from when they were just over 4 weeks old I would have doubted the authenticity of the dates on the paperwork too.