Can someone please confirm the etiquette of showing at a show where your dogs breeder is also judging but would not be judging your dog.

I have a bitch, her breeder will be judging dogs of same breed at a champ show.  Am I allowed (or is it morally OK) to show under the bitch judge at the same show?

I seem to remember someone saying they could not show at a particular show as their breeder was judging a completely different breed at the same show which would certainly mean I cannot exhibit at this show.  Shame as I would of liked the opinion of this particular bitch judge!

There's absolutely no problem with showing a bitch under someone when your breeder is judging dogs. Go for it, good luck and enjoy your showing.

If you do win best bitch you will be able to withdraw.
Often they ask you to do a lap of honour but it will leave a bit of an anti climax to the show.

As the others have said, no problem at all, unless you win Best Bitch, then you can't challenge for BOB and will have to withdraw.

> you can't challenge for BOB and will have to withdraw.

Surely not true, although I can't find it in the regulations?

In my experience, the breeder of my bitch just allowed the other judge to decide BOB, which I won, and then stepped back in for the other decisions - although I have it in my head that the breeder actually could have judged it too. I have seen this happen at another show as well.

You haven't actually entered under them, after all - same as if breeder of your dog is an emergency replacement judge (although I suspect most would withdraw then anyway, whilst cursing LOL).

Hopefully someone can confirm?

In my experience, the breeder of my bitch just allowed the other judge to decide BOB, which I won, and then stepped back in for the other decisions

That would only happen in the event there are two judges, one for dogs, the other for bitches?

Fact is it may be okay under the rules?  but ethically I'd never enter under the person who bred my entry.   I'd not want to put them in that situation, or me risk her chucking me out to be honest!!!   And if it happened the breeder was a replacement judge, then I'd withdraw.  

If you have a need to know, phone/email the Kennel Club.

ps   Obviously if your breeder is judging the other sex, then I'd imagine there would be no problem, unless it came to the situation above ....... but occasionally two judges don't agree on the BOB in any case, in which case a third judge would step in.

>That would only happen in the event there are two judges, one for dogs, the other for bitches?

Which is precisely the circumstances the OP is discussing here.

>ethically I'd never enter under the person who bred my entry

Ethics actually don't even come in to it - a) in the UK, regulations prohibit entering under the breeder of your dog and have done for many years and b) in this circumstance you're not.

For my part, I would not want to win a challenge by the opposing winner withdrawing. There are perfectly easy ways round it by other judge or the referee making the decision. I just wanted to correct the mis-posting that said earlier that you could not challenge for BOB and would have to withdraw, but if my understanding is wrong under UK KC regulations, obviously it would be interesting to know.

    >ethically I'd never enter under the person who bred my entry

Ethics actually don't even come in to it

Actually ....... I suppose I shoul have said "RULES APART  ..... ethically I'd never enter under the person who bred my entry".   And I stand by that.   It's been some years since I was out there showing, so I'm not up to date with what the rules state now.   And for me, ethics DO come into this.   If just because I'd not want to put any breeder I'd bought from, in that situation....... !!

As for That would only happen in the event there are two judges, one for dogs, the other for bitches?  my comment was in answer to other comments made after the OP.  

And for me, ethics DO come into this.   If just because I'd not want to put any breeder I'd bought from, in that situation....... !!

But no breeder could be put into that situation -unless they were an emergency replacement judge which is quite rare. So don't see the relevance.

But no breeder could be put into that situation

I'm lost.    If the breeder of my hound(s) was scheduled to judge my breed, then I'd not enter.   If a substitute judge happened to be the breeder of my hound(s), then I'd withdraw.   Simples?

Heck, I have to say I did enter a bitch I'd bred overseas and brought back into the UK when we came back, who went back to that judge's bloodlines (she'd bred our foundation bitch), under that judge.   And she gave me the RBCC!!!

If a breeder happened to be doing dogs only, and I had bitches entered, or vice versa, then I'd show.   If it so happened I ended up as BB, then I'd probably not go in for BOB with an explanation about why given to the Steward.   And as a judge, I'd hope and expect nobody with a dog I'd bred would put it in the ring under me, whether through the classes, or for BOB.

UK KC rules don't allow you to enter a dog under it's breeder or to be exact your dog would be disqualified if you did, according their breed show regulations

.

(
30. Disqualification and Forfeit of Awards
30. Disqualification and Forfeit of Awards14)Registered or recorded as having been bred by the scheduled Judge. This shall not apply to a Judge appointed in an emergency

The OP asked if it was alright to enter her bitch, who was bred by the person judging MALES. This is perfectly fine to do so.

The only thing is, should the OP get Best Bitch, the Best Dog will automatically become BIS due to not being able to be judged by her breeder.

Jaspersmum, go ahead & enter, your not breaking any kind of rules or etiquette, in this instance :)

Wonder what would happen if the best dog was bred by the bitch judge and the best bitch was bred by the dog judge?!

I guess they'd have to call the referee.

BIS would then be declared by the referee..

I would give a thought to the awful anti climax to the end of that hypothetical breed show people will have waited all year for.

> I would give a thought to the awful anti climax to the end of that hypothetical breed show people will have waited all year for.

My breed has 11 breed clubs & all have CC status & all have at least one other show aswell, so it wouldnt bother me that much.

dont forget it is only hyperthetical & there has only been less than a handful of occasions when the CC for one sex, has been won by the opposite judge...even in the amount of entries/judges my breed gets!!!

Same here - I don't think people in my breed would be that bothered at a slight anti climax at one breed show when we have so many. But then it's been a long time since I've had a dog likely to go Best Dog or Bitch at a champ show! :-p

I would give a thought to the awful anti climax to the end of that hypothetical breed show people will have waited all year for.

Indeed.   Which is why, in the event either judge was at all involved with any of my show dogs, I'd just not enter.   It's surely not vital to enter every single show???   Much as some might say yes.

No need for any anti climax at all ( even if lightning did strike and a dog bred by one of the judges won through ) ... Where two judges are scheduled simply ask the referee to do BIS.  One judge couldn't judge a dog she bred therefore the two judges cannot reach agreement in such cases referee is called. Simple

Thanks everyone - The chance of us getting BB are minimal to non-existent other than in my dreams so don't think it would be an issue to be challenging for BOB... I live in hope though

:) Like!

Never say never..... ;-)