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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Problem with newborn pup
- By Goldmali Date 24.12.14 02:50 UTC
I have two pups less than a day old. As I am typing approx 20 hrs. There were 3 in the litter but one was stillborn. They were born day 65 from first mating but are very small. The dog pup keeps crying. I am pretty sure he has not suckled at all since being born, not sure the bitch pup has either. I have tried to bottlefeed but it's impossible as the milk just comes out the nose. That makes me think cleft palate but I can't see one. I won't even attempt tube feeding as every time I did with kittens, it ended up killing them. When put to the mother this pup always seems to crawl in the wrong direction and doesn't seem to try suckling. My gut instinct tells me this pup has no chance but what could be wrong and is there anything I can do?
Edited to say: Mum has plenty of milk.
- By labgundogs [gb] Date 24.12.14 09:08 UTC
What are their weights doing? Have they been vet checked? If not then that would be my first port of call...
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 24.12.14 11:38 UTC
So sorry you are having this trouble.   And I agree, much as you should be able to keep a puppy going with glucose and warm water (no point really if mum has milk), something isn't right with this puppy.   Is he warm - I'm sure you know once morbidly chilled, they won't nurse.   I never got to grips with tube feeding so I sympathise.   If a puppy is strong enough he should nurse.

We had one disasterous litter (veterinary incompetence) where one of the 5 survivors had milk coming through his nose to the point despite our best efforts once we got them all home, he didn't survive.   The wretched people had tried bottling the litter once they were able to be born via C.Section - all they needed immediately was to be in warmth to recover their ordeal and 'ordeal' it was because the C.Section was delayed to the point that 4 of the 9 puppies were doa, to be joined by this 5th one.   I wept because he was stunning - almost all white with a black head and small black patch at the tail set on.   He'd have had black ticking on the white eventually too.

Me thinks the vet should take a look at him.   And the other puppy + mum too of course.

When breeding goes right, it's such fun.  When it doesn't it's heartbreaking.    We had a wonderful time with a Christmas Eve (Sectioned!!) litter one year.   After the trauma of her needing the Section, thank heavens it all went well 9 puppies and us shut in the warm with it snowing like crazy outside (Canada.)
- By lleonder [gb] Date 24.12.14 12:09 UTC
Sorry to hear your having problems.  Don't know if this would help but saw this video of pups being hand fed using sponge the other week.  Hope you can see the video by using this link.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=4767246701510&set=vb.1305701179&type=3&theater
- By darwinawards Date 24.12.14 12:19 UTC
If you can get hold of nutridrops I would try a few drops. I find its gives them just that little bit more resilience. Re, the bottle feeding, if he is a tiny pup even a small hole in the teat could be flooding his mouth which is possibly why you are seeing milk coming from the nose.

If I remember rightly you have another girl with pups, Try placing one of them on a nipple to get a really good flow and then try to latch the struggling pup on. Or use moms milk just to put a few drops on the tongue?
- By JeanSW Date 24.12.14 23:04 UTC

>When breeding goes right, it's such fun.  When it doesn't it's heartbreaking.


Ain't that the truth.
- By Dill [us] Date 24.12.14 23:39 UTC Edited 24.12.14 23:42 UTC
Don't know if it will help at this stage,  but I've also seen where pups have been fed with a clean paintbrush -  think children's watercolour type of soft brush.    Making sure the hairs aren't loose obviously,  some cheap ones are bad for this.

Just in case you don't have a sponge. ;-)

Is it possible they are just a little 'slow'  to get going?

My (now) oldest bitch was flat when she was born,  after her brother took so long (proper breech,  tail first,  and sac broken,  and of course HUGE pup)

Once we got her going,  she was quite confused and unco-ordinated at first,  we and needed me to put her on the teat,  and then stroke under her chin and throat to get her to suckle.   Then she'd just stop as if she forgot what she was doing,  so I'd tickle the side of her mouth or her ear to get her started again.

It was only for a day or so,  but it was worrying.

Does the pup take the whole of the teat and the surrounding area into his mouth?    In order to get any milk,  he needs to be taking more than just the nipple -  I'm sure you already know this,  but tiredness and stress can make us forget the most surprising things.

Hope he rallies and you can enjoy this litter xxx
- By Goldmali Date 24.12.14 23:57 UTC
Thanks all. I wasn't able to get to vet today -lots going on including an ill mother in law that needing caring for and of course Christmas dinner as Swedes celebrate on Christmas Eve (it's honestly been one of the busiest days of my life) -I would have put pup before anything but suddenly I did manage to get some milk into him without it going up his nose -basically by dropping it onto hos tongue. He doesn't seem to have a proper sucking reflex like his sister does and this of course could improve with age. Both pups have lost weight, although the bitch more than this dog. It's scary how small they are. The bitch at just 88 g now weighs 100 g LESS than her dad did when he was born !! (Then again for the first day I would expect a loss, but these were tiny to start with.) I am now getting milk into him every 3 hrs and after each feed he sleeps and does not cry. I had forgotten about the sponge feeding video! I have seen it before and yes I have new clean sponges at home -I shall give this a go tomorrow.
- By Goldmali Date 25.12.14 00:08 UTC
Oh and I forgot to say, they are on a heated pad, temperature controlled to always be 38 C, and I have had the central heating on 24/7 for the pups' sake.
- By Dill [us] Date 25.12.14 01:23 UTC
I totally sympathise Marianne,   it's such a busy time without the extra stress of sick  relatives  too :-(

Have  been doing the Scandinavian Christmas for over 30   years now,  as well  as the Briitish (German MIL)  and it's really stressful.   No chance to do the meat on Christmas eve.  Not to mention 2 Christmas dinners :eek:

Are you able to express mum's milk?    Won't be much of it,  but the colostrum would be a great help for this little guy ;-)

The first milk is very small quantities,  much smaller than when the milk properly comes in,  so tiny amounts given every hour or so.

Hope things improve soon xxx
- By Tyddhound [gb] Date 25.12.14 19:54 UTC
Have you tried them with some Puppystim, it worked wonders on our last litter.
- By Floradora [gb] Date 27.12.14 07:53 UTC
Hi Marianne, I really hope that this pup survives, I am keeping everything crossed for you. Big hugs
- By Goldmali Date 27.12.14 12:02 UTC
Well he's still here aged 4 days now -touchwood. He is odd, if he ends up away from his mum he doesn't seem able to find his way back, tends to crawl in the wrong direction, and he cannot latch on to a teat. I am up several times in the night as when he starts crying I know he has got too far away from mum again, or is hungry. But I am managing to get him to eat and he has started to gain a bit of weight. :)
- By Dill [gb] Date 27.12.14 18:35 UTC Edited 27.12.14 18:42 UTC
Hopefully he's just a little 'slow' and will do better as he matures.

My bitch was similar as I recall and I was worried about her being brain damaged in some way through lack of oxygen, but she's bright enough, housetrained very quickly, trained very quickly.   

She is sometimes a little 'odd' compared to my other dogs, will bark at OH if he's been upstairs or in the toilet, as if she's forgotten he was here.   But it's more of a welcome bark than anything, no aggression.

She did used to tell some people off when we were at shows - usually noisy ones who were shouting.   And she'll bark if we're doing something noisy/lively in the house, last night the family were playing a board game and it got quite heated at one time, think she was trying to join in, her bum was wiggling like mad LOL

Hope the pups keep gaining nicely and you can enjoy this litter xxx

Not sure if it helps, but I have a friend who is a lactation consultant and this kind of thing seems surprisingly common, some newborns are a little slow to get going and learn to suckle, but they do well with patience and a little help and they do eventually 'get it' ;-)
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Problem with newborn pup

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