Just wondered if anyone had had any success with a mating after a very high progesterone reading...... :(  gutted I've missed my bitch, but holding out for a little hope.

She has had a litter before, mated on day 13 & 15, so I blood tested her on day 10, today, and got the results back this afternoon, which were a staggering 112.1nmol!!!!  To say I was devastated is an understatement, as my other bitch had a failed mating for another reason.  Anyway, they said you can try her but she's gone over.  My own stud dog wanted to mate her on Wednesday! and I guess I should have listened to him?!  And he was still wanting to this morning.  So, with a heavy heart I dashed down to the chosen stud dog tonight, and we had a mating, and she was actually flagging.  Very confusing.  I would have thought if she was that far over then he wouldn't have been interested? 

Anyway, I just wonder if anyone had had any success and got any pups from a similar circumstance?  I guess if I had not blood tested and just mated today I would have been happy that we had a mating with 15 minute tie.

The other reason that this may have occurred and accelerated her ovulation is that she was on the pill before her season, to prevent her coming in, before a big competition.  So, I suppose this may have had an effect.

Would just be interested if anyone else has any similar experiences.  Thanks.

Had a bitch come to my stud dog that was ready due to bloods on that day, my dog was not interested. I kept the  bitch and she finally mated 6 days after blood test. Her vet stated that there would be no puppies, she went on to have ten. My partner had similar with a bitch to his dog, mated five days later, she had 8 pups. Good luck and fingers crossed

>Had a bitch come to my stud dog that was ready due to bloods on that day

Depends on interpretation.

If ready meant she had ovulated in fact she wasn't ready to conceive for at least two more days, and then the ova would still have been fertilisable for another two to 4 days as not all are ovulated at once but over around 48 hours.

If you were doing AI they would,. inseminate 3 days after ovulation.

Thank you.  My stud dog really wanted to mate her on Weds, and was still interested on the Friday morning of the test too.  I wish I had listened to him, and just taken her down there then, but it was so early I thought.

I know all of this is partially my fault as we messed with her season so she could compete.  Not something I would ever normally do with a bitch that I was about to mate.  But there were rather extenuating circumstances....  I guess that pushed her forwards.  A big lesson.  She's not a bitch that really shows or flags at all so all rather difficult.

All we can do is wait (the agonising wait!) and see now I suppose.  I will report back in 4-5 weeks, good or bad.

From the charts it seems levels over 90 and it's to late.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">From the charts it seems levels over 90 and it's to late.

Yes, I know!... that's why I'm so disappointed :(

Better luck next time.  I'm due to try for last time as my girl has missed twice after having had two litters.

Yes, my other girl also missed twice after having two litters.  Really don't know why, as she was blood tested, and two good matings.  Frustrating.

Really wanted a new pup for this Spring, but looks like I will have to wait a year now.

>Really wanted a new pup for this Spring,

Ditto, so this time will be mating two a month or so apart, hopefully will get a bitch pups to keep.

Very similar happened to me. Got her results back from bloods day before at 62.2 told was too late. Took her to stud and got very good mate. We are now 5 weeks from mate and no signs of pups :(

>Very similar happened to me. Got her results back from bloods day before at 62.2 told was too late. Took her to stud and got very good mate. We are now 5 weeks from mate and no signs of pups :-(

Oh no, that is really sad.  Been doing so much reading today, and think that the pill, norethisterone, may have caused early oestrus.  My stud dog is still interested, and if he is still keen tomorrow I am going to take her again.  I know it's beyond all odds, but I have to try, and hope that sometimes tests are wrong perhaps?.....  sorry it happened to you too. x

I know tests to have been wrong, not with mine but with others. Idexx was saying not ready but cytology was saying the bitch was, breeder took their chances and she was ready and got a mating and a litter, if they'd listened to Idexx she would have been over.
It's a hard one isn't it.

>breeder took their chances and she was ready

but would they have been wrong when you consider that sperm can live a long time up to a week or more?

Well, we had another mating today with 10 minute tie.  I know it's crazy.  And I am sure it's 'against all odds'.  At least this time I will go to the scanner in 4 weeks not expecting there to be any pups, which has to be better than going thinking there are, and being told she's empty...

fingers all crossed that the hormone season suppressant just increased the progesterone hormone levels beyond normal.

What drug was used I'd be interested to look up how it works, and if that might give usa  clue.

">norethisterone

Didn't realise they gave it to canines as I have been given it to help sort out my prolonged menstrual periods being peri-menapausal.

Yes, norethisterone is given when the other options are contraindicated (they can have some bad side effects).  This was supposed to be the safest option and few issues related to it.  I have used it before, successfully, to stop bitches coming into season, but not with a bitch that I have intended to breed from, and not straight from the pill either.  I would have hoped to give her one clear season before trying, so it was all out of her system perhaps, as it is bound to have some effect.  But things didn't quite go to plan.

I did a lot of reading up on it on Saturday, which I probably should have done earlier, and it appears it can cause rebound or early oestrus :(  you live and learn I guess.... had I realised, I would have tested her much sooner.

I was also wondering if it elevated the progesterone assay readings too (grasping at straws!), as it is a manmade progesterone, but she came off it 10 days before coming into season, so I would imagine it would be out of her system.  I just don't know.

I'm not expecting her to be in pup.  But I will scan her to be sure and report back for people's information.

> did a lot of reading up on it on Saturday, which I probably should have done earlier, and it appears it can cause rebound or early oestrus :-(  you live and learn I guess.... had I realised, I would have tested her much sooner.<br /><br />I was also wondering if it elevated the progesterone assay readings too (grasping at straws!),

That's what I was wondering.

Everything I read only referred to use in Racing Greyhound bitches.

I can understand it being used there as my doctor prescribed me a box saying I may as well have it on hand as it's cheap as chips.

Hi first time on here and really dont know if posted right, my shepard has just mated with my bitch X and was just asking my male dog appears to be mating her daily even though they have locked of at least 5 times is this normal.
by the way new to this and used to live UK now Adelaide oz

You can stop the your GSD and crossbreed from having puppies if you have her injected with a drug called Alizin, this is normally administered at the end of the season (so avoiding the chance the bitch is mated again) but is efficacious up to 42 days post mating. It is a much better drug than some of the older mismate drugs which were often associated with Pyometra or cystic uterus.

With the long shelf life of canine sperm and the fact that bitches ovulate immature eggs the period of receptivity can be as long as just before ovulation to about 4 days after when the ovulated eggs will be dying off, so about 6 days.

Some males will take full opportunity of the opportunities to mate, other, usually more experienced males refuse to waste their time and will only mate a bitch at peak fertility, maybe even only once, but often over the best three day period.

If ovulation time is actually ascertained by blood test then there is absolutely no need for more than one mating Three days after ovulation, as you would if doing AI with frozen semen which has only hours of shelf life.

Certainly if both partners are at the same address there is no harm n mating every day, especially if it's a young dog needing experience, but it is far better to mate two or three times, usually alternate days to cover all bases. 

The first mating at around ovulation will clear a lot of debris, especially if the dog hasn't been used for a while (common in my breed for males to be rarely used).

These are some figures somoen posted a while back which they got from the lab apparently:

Here are the numbers:
0-2  nmol/L           Baseline concentrations too early to estimate ovulation
3 - 6 nmol /L        Minimum 2 days before ovulation expected however result of 3 - 4 nmol/L may persist for a week or longer before increasing. Earliiest estimating breeding 4 - 6 days but could be longer (re test needed)
7 - 12 nmol/L   Minimum 1 day before ovulation. Estimated window for breeding 3 - 5 days but could be longer  ( re test recommended)
13 - 18 nmol/L   Ovulation impending or just occurred. Estimated breeding window 2 - 4 days 
19 - 31 nmol/L   Ovulation recently occurred. Estimated breeding window 1 - 3 days
32 - 64 nmol/L   Ova have matured, optimal potential for fertility.  Estimated breeding window  0 - 2 days
65 - 90 nmol/L   Ova have matured but aging, decreased potential for fertility.  Breed  at once
Above 90 nmol/L    Too late 

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">These are some figures somoen posted a while back which they got from the lab apparently:<br /><br />Here are the numbers:<br />0-2  nmol/L           Baseline concentrations too early to estimate ovulation <br />3 - 6 nmol /L        Minimum 2 days before ovulation expected however result of 3 - 4 nmol/L may persist for a week or longer before increasing. Earliiest estimating breeding 4 - 6 days but could be longer (re test needed)<br />7 - 12 nmol/L   Minimum 1 day before ovulation. Estimated window for breeding 3 - 5 days but could be longer  ( re test recommended) <br />13 - 18 nmol/L   Ovulation impending or just occurred. Estimated breeding window 2 - 4 days  <br />19 - 31 nmol/L   Ovulation recently occurred. Estimated breeding window 1 - 3 days<br />32 - 64 nmol/L   Ova have matured, optimal potential for fertility.  Estimated breeding window  0 - 2 days<br />65 - 90 nmol/L   Ova have matured but aging, decreased potential for fertility.  Breed  at once<br />Above 90 nmol/L    Too late  <br />

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I know!!! Read this chart myself on the way down to take her to be mated!!! LOL (whilst swearing a lot!!!) I'm still desperately hoping though....

Well, I promised an update, whatever the outcome.... but sadly it's not a 'miracle' happy one!! LOL

The dam is now over 6 weeks since mating, and I think we can safely say she is not pregnant. :(

In a way, I guess it is sort of good news (trying to take a positive spin on things?!) in that the blood tests were 'correct'.  She had gone over.  And despite two good matings, it was too late.

Try again in a year's time I guess.......