some of you will already know this but I am wondering if there is anything I have missed. My 7 year old gsd is an itchy boy. It start 3 or 4 years ago with him nibbling his feet during summer. vet has taken skin scrapes nothing shows and eventually I agreed to steroid injections which he has now had three years running and relieves the problem.
This year same story except it has changed he is chewing his feet less but is itchy all over not drastically but definitely more than he should be. He gets the occasional hotspot but not often .
he is now on homeopathic regime from a homeopath not just me grabbing things to see if it helps, so far no improvement in fact maybe worse  but maybe I am impatient. He has been raw fed since he was 6 months ,only puppy vaccinations and only chemical treatments once or twice when I have seen a flea on him or one of the other. currently no sign of anything but took the precaution of using advocate a month or two ago. Negative results from skin scrapes. In the last week I have started adding coconut oil to his food . He also has dry flaky skin if you look carefully through his long hair and undercoat

Next official stop a dermatological referral a but am also going to get hair analysis done in the new year as I have heard good things with that.
If its an allergy I know they are notoriously difficult to track down and treat and not seeing much faith in the reading I am doing with allergy tests.
any thoughts that I havnt covered ? thank you

One good way to find out if it's an allergy is to try a short course of Apoquel - if your vet can get hold of any! It's a newly-released treatment for itchy dogs and everyone raves about how effective it is. The trouble is that it's been so successful that there's been a national shortage for months and vets are rationed as to how much they can order! Luckily it doesn't take long to see if it's going to help a dog - a matter of 2 or 3 days at most - so it's worth a try. If it doesn't make a difference then your dog probably isn't suffering from an allergy, but something else.

interesting jean genie I will check that one out. Any idea what it is and what it does ?

Have a read of the datasheet. (You can keep clicking on 'Next' to get to the dosage, contrainidications and so forth.)

Thank you

I do sympathise. My 8 y o GSD is itchy too. Its not seasonal. He nibbles himself and sometimes gets bloody/pussy lesions on his paws. One skin scrape said staph infection. His sister (with hemangiosarcoma) has never scratched! My vet said he & his son have eczema and his daughter doesn't.
I'm assuming my dogs immune system is compromised in some way. We resort to a long term course of ABs and 5 day course of steroids a couple of times a year and it all settles down until the next time. I treat him with Advocate a couple of times a year but he hasn't been vaccinated for 4 years. I regularly bath him and blast his coat thinking he might be allergic to dust. Ive tried him on most foods (except going totally raw). I know of a dog that has allergy injections but they're not very successful. My vet hasn't come up with any other suggestions so far.

You have probably already done this but if it has happened in the Summer mostly or at the change of seasons - has your vet told you to try Piriton - it wont get rid of the skin issue once its raging or infected and requires anti-biotics or steroids to get under control - but if it is at that first "itchy lickey stage" and its allergy related then piriton will help calm the itch and possibly stop the flare up if it is allergy related before the itchiness gets out of control. Also helps to confirm its an allergy since if it isnt then Piriton would make no difference whatsoever. Washing with Malaseb can help stop the itch a little bit too.

My westies went through the allergy tests - one I got under control with food (Burns Venison & Rice for 3 months and then try changing to different foods until I figured out which types made him worse - chicken meal was his Achilles heel although he was fine with real chicken) I then introduced him to tiny amounts bit by bit until he has now had no allergy or treatment for 6 years.  My little girl was allergic to various grasses and weeds - I did the immune-therapy injections with her - but - I only did it for 9 months - I didn't continue for as long as the vet said - and I give her 1/2 tablet of piriton in the lead up to change of season from Spring to Summer and Summer to autumn - she has had no issues for 5 years either. And whenever they are washed the only shampoo used is Malaseb on their feet and around ears and mouth etc.

thanks wolfi and tinar . Wolfi it does sound like you are describing whispa  and tinar the one common thing my vet hasn't suggested is piriton and you are right it is mostly in the summer and yes once its really bad the only way I can alleviate the problem is steroids it then subsides for while some years better than others. We were thinking harvest mites but nothing showed in the scrapes although I gather that's a bit hit and miss depending on scraping in the areas the mites or their eggs are. Its easy to miss them
I am reluctant to go for the allergy testing as it does seem to be un reliable and then unreliable with regular injections and maybe still needing steroid injections for flare up. Not sure that's really any better than we all ready have but without introducing medication on a regular basis.
I think I will have another chat with m vet regarding piriton and the drug jean suggested. I can try portion without any problem once I know the amounts the other is POM so would need the vets agreement.. I will also get some malaseb . tbh I don't bath him often he goes to the groomer about 3 or 4 times a year as he is a big boy and long haired and I only have the bathroom , so very hard work for us both. His feet obviously are easier but atm it seems to be randomly all over him, not intense but too much for normal

You're right the allergy tests are a little bit crap - some dogs will come back with a huge list of things but that doesn't actually mean that any or all of the things on the list cause the skin problem - the tests wont really help pin-point the trouble-maker on the list unless you are lucky enough to have the test come back with only 1 or 2 things. For example - one thing on the list could just give the dog wind - another thing could be the one that creates the itch in the skin - but how can you tell which is which? the tests wont help with that. They test with skin scrapes first - then the allergy testing through a blood sample - and if that comes back with a positive reaction to something you then have to do another round of testing so they can narrow it down and provide a full list of things the dog has intolerances to. After that its down to your own trial and error taking turns to eliminate things on the list really but the tests can be useful in at least showing what they definitely aren't allergic to which can help narrow it down. Both times the vet told me that the allergies my dogs were likely to be having was a reaction to harvest mites/storage mites/dust mites or fleas.  None of which were actually the cause in the end.  I think the allergy tests are a final resort to be honest - when you just cant find the cause but are certain its an allergy of some sort.  (The immuno-therapy injections are only helpful as a last resort too - when you know for sure what your dog is reacting to and the thing in question cant be avoided  - like grass).

Wish you luck in helping your little one - Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it - its a frustrating thing to have to deal with.

Thanks tina

Have a couple of itchy dogs, advised to use Malaseb some years ago & wouldn't touch it again. From memory you have to use it a couple of times a week for a fortnight & then on a regular basis, it's strong, drying, strips the coat of any oil & can as with one of ours leave skin tomato red & in such discomfort that he ran round the house until I smothered him in sudocrem & waited for help in getting him back in the bath for another wash with oatmeal. Also remember seeing somewhere were it was advised to use with gloves, use with caution & rinse, rinse & rinse again.

Malaseb is really drying - if you have a really bad skin breakout you can bath your dogs every few days until the skin is under control but it shouldn't be used all the time as it will just cause problems - my dogs only have a bath every 5 weeks and I only use the malaseb on the delicate areas on paws, around face etc. But Lacy is right - it cant be used frequently for long or it will dry skin out and create a whole heap of other problems - but it is a safe shampoo to use on a dog with allergies that isn't washed frequently and to use on specific areas that are itching whilst trying to get skin under control.

I used malaseb religiously on my last dog and the groomers said the same thing. Red raw and Stripping.

Fast forward to current dog.

This little one has managed to scratch herself really badly over the weekend at the end of her 1st season. I thought it could be as she was grubby not having been bathed during her season. I took her to the vets on Monday as she broke the skin. The vet had to remove the scab and said probably will never know what caused it. I have advocated her, he gave her an anti inflammatory and steroid cream. He has given me the ok to try with coconut oil for a week checking it to ensure it isn't inflamed and back on Monday to see if we need to go steroid.

She is also having a phantom so it may be hormonal but unlikely if just in one spot, she is much happier
now she has been bathed. It could be due to the hot weather earlier in the year he has reacted to dust mites and it hasn't alleviated.

As a matter of interest do you give coconut oil to the dogs to eat or are you rubbing it in them.if its the latter how do ypu manage that on a longhaired dog ? Same with sudocreme hiw do u use that and what if they lick it

Short haired breed here, Sudocrem has always given relief, thick & not easy to apply but it works 'short term', they don't really lick it much but never heard of problems or had any. Have tried giving coconut oil with food & one of ours an upset stomach, it might not have been related, but knowing how upset stomachs can lead to colitis with ours I stopped giving it. Do however use it on their irritated skin, scrape the back of my nail against it & it soon melts as I rub it in & yes it too has given relief. Itchy dogs have a dreadful time it's so uncomfortable & there seems to be so many more suffering. Something else that has helped & can't remember if it was on champdogs that I  heard of it is, 50/50 baby oil & old fashioned brown Listerine, yes I was sceptical but will try anything if it gives relief, keep it in the fridge, apply daily & it works.

The listerene us interesting i have areaction to water on my skin.makes showerung a nightmare the only thing that helps is aquaous cream with menthol from the doctor.i wonder if listerne and oil has a similar effect ? Its cooling.im my cse antihistamines do t helpand this has bee  theonly way to get relief so i know how dogs feel its enough to male my claw my skin apart

Likewise have been using aqueous cream for years, as for the baby oil & Listerine both will lay contentedly for as long as it takes to apply, soothing, easy to use & if I remember to do it daily does really seem to assist.

Still wondering how to use creams of any sort on a long haired double coated gsd . I can do his tummy s there is less hair there but otherwise I really need a spray of something 

I give her coconut oil to eat and on knots it helps. With her sore I just rub it in. It doesn't matter if she licks the oil unlike a cream. Although I don't know about sudo cream.

You can dilute coconut oil down. Get a spray bottle. You just have to put the bottle in warm water before using and give a shake.

Thank you i will give that a try

Just back from the vets and her wound is healing beautifully. He has shaved and removed the scab again. I told him this was just with coconut oil not the steroid cream he issued. I would definitely recommend it! She is also not itching it now.

Still struggling with hot spot and itchues
Usung hubiscrub and coconut but have sgaved the area around hot spot to let air get to it and easier for coconut

Have you tried turmeric paste? You can apply it topically and also orally. I applied some to a cyst on one of my dogs that was not healing and within a few days it had dried up considerably and was not bothering him as much. It's horrible having an itchy dog, I know, I have a girl who suffers all sorts of allergies. Turmeric has helped her a lot. My lad with HD has also improved since being on it as well. I still have to give him his pain meds but I can definitely see a difference in him. There is a Turmeric group on Facebook that has tons of useful info.

> I am reluctant to go for the allergy testing as it does seem to be un reliable and then unreliable with regular injections

That's not my experience.  I have a dog with severe allergies: we opted to have a York test to identify the allergens he reacts to and he now has customised monthly injections.  I administer these myself and at certain times of year I can wait 6-8 weeks before he needs another.  His symptoms start to subside within 12 hours of the injection.

I give regular Piriton tablets, wash daily with a mild solution of Hibiscrub and apply Dermacton as a topical application whenever needed.  Given that I wash him after most walks I apply the dermacton whilst he is wet or damp which helps spreading ability and therefore the coverage.  I rarely need to take any more aggressive action

If your dog is reactive to pollen then washing this out of his coat may well be the best option although I realise that in a heavy coated dog it's more of a problem than for my wire coated boy.  You could just rub him over with a damp towel after brushing but pollen is so fine that its likely to settle on him after running in the long summer grass.  However a York Test will give you an indication of what you are trying to avoid...

interesting dab. Is York blood or skin tests I must do some more research. I am trying him on piriton this week but so far no change. The current hotspot has improved since I started using hibiscrub and coconut.
Rosecobabe turmeric paste is on my new year list to make and try at least orally

York Testing is a simple blood test.  Have a look at this link for information on Sensitest.  I think there are now several companies that offer a similar service so check with your vet which one they use.

Whilst I know that coconut oil has many health benefits (I prefer to feed it) I can highly recommend Dermacton as a topical salve for itchy patches and dry flaky sore skin.  My boy still has bad times of year but I can generally get on top of the problem very quickly with this stuff.  It reduces redness, soothes itching, moisturises the skin and heals sore spots within 12 hours or so.  I also like their Ultrasalve antiseptic cream for wounds - it's my canine version of Savlon!!

My other coping strategy includes feeding a raw diet with salmon oil, vitamin E capsules and garlic and fenugreek tablets

By the way: even if washing all over is problematic I would always wipe face, eyes, mouth with a mild solution of hibiscrub and thoroughly wash paws.  I do all this outside with a hose then a warm bucket of water with Hibiscrub

Thank you  will have a read of that. Poor boy came back from a walk where he had been stopping every few steps to chew or scratch . We haven't got fleas or anything. I have now started to go away from my all natural things except 100% raw feeding and have used advocate last month but no change.
Have  used hibscrub on his hotspot and then remembered I had new tube of fuciderm gel the vet gave me 2 a couple of months ago when we had a bad bout of this after being shaved for a scan so have applied that.
I think we will have to go for the referral after Christmas this has got silly now no longer seasonal but has changed to this intense random itching.
I m getting my self all confused with  all of this and quite depressed. I have just had to make a referral appointment for my flat coat for January having discovered she has an ear infection which is aspergillious (sp) two dogs having referral at the same time !!! thank goodness I have insurance.

I completely feel for you furriefriends it is a horrible frustrating thing to deal with.  I would strongly recommend the testing if the problem is accelerating and you feel you have eliminated all possible causes you can think of - the vets never seem too confident with the immunotherapy injections because they say with some dogs they work like a miracle cure but others have so many allergies it was not so successful. But they definitely worked like a miracle for my girl - no itching at all and perfect skin within 30 days - I was lucky that she only had 3 things she was allergic to (all plants). She only did two sets of the injections and then she just never developed an allergy again.  If you are dealing with an allergy to something hard to avoid like pollen or grasses its your very best bet and it does seem that you have eliminated a lot of the possible causes already.

One thing the vet may have already asked you and you probably already thought of - but just in case -have you used any cleaning products on your floor?  Things like shake-n-vac are notorious for skin breakouts - as are other upholstery products like Fabreze and some washing powders of course (if you have changed your powder and washed the bedding or something)

If you do go for the testing - check your insurance policy beforehand as it may not be covered by insurance - with my girl they classed the allergy testing and immune-therapy injections as being a preventative treatment rather a cure/medical necessity and so they didn't cover any part of the allergy testing or injections. Though, it wasn't that expensive if I remember rightly, it was around £200 for the complete work up of tests and then around the same again for the first batch of serum to be made up (may have changed but it used to be made up in a lab in America and made specific to each dog). The first batch lasts 6 months. I think most do 12-18 months course of injections though my girl only did 9 months.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you that you can get to the bottom of it soon.