My now 6 year old champion bitch has had two litters (Feb 2011 and Jan 2013).

She was mated in January this year, and missed, and again August and missed again.

In her second litter we had two partially mummified puppies, which I had not given much thought about.

I have been reading about the herpes virus and one of the effects is a negative affect on the placenta causing fetal deaths.

The bitch had been off her food and not right and refusing to eat after whelping and we did loose one of the remaining puppies leaving us with a live litter of 6.

I want a last litter from her with a  view to keeping a puppy if there is one of better quality than the daughter I kept from the first.

Does this sound like a case of herpes virus and should I vaccinate her this time and any other bitches that I have breeding plans for, namely her niece due in season in January.

We have not had a litter here since the one she had with the mummified pups in January 2013.

I have occasionally had bitches miss, but never twice in a row.  the last mating was to the dog she had her second litter to, and before than the male sired a litter before and after her mating.

Personally would vaccinate with herpes vaccine, the repro vet I used always recommend its use and definitely if a bitch had missed more than once.

Re the herpes can this prevent a pregnancy actually occurring? Is it something you'd give before mating rather than post?

>Is it something you'd give before mating rather than post?

Both; it's two vaccines, First injection: Either during heat or 7 - 10 days after the presumed date of mating.
Second injection: 1 to 2 weeks before the expected date of whelping.

Agree with klb on this--I had my bitch vaccinated (her first litter) and would do so again in future.

What I was asking JG that if a bitch is missing it's best to have the first one before mating? I know there are two but the second wouldn't happen if negative scan at 28 days.

I've always used the herpes vaccine on my girl. My vet also recommends a weeks course of antibiotics from the start of the season.

My vet has also advised the herpes vaccine and a course of antibiotics too! Can I ask what type of antibiotics your vet prescribes?

My bitch has missed for the 2nd time too.
First time herpes given post mating and nothing in scan.
2nd time bacterial swab done and didn't do herpes due to a mess up at the vets and still nothing on scan.
Idexx both times too

My vet has also advised the herpes vaccine and a course of antibiotics too! Can I ask what type of antibiotics your vet prescribes?

He uses a broad spectrum antibiotic, I think it was synulox when she had a litter last year.

I would vaccinate with herpes vaccine. I had one girl that scanned pregnant at four weeks, but absorbed all and then did not conceive at all after her second attempt. On her third and final attempt I used the vaccine and she delivered seven very healthy babies.

>I had one girl that scanned pregnant at four weeks, but absorbed all and then did not conceive at all after her second attempt.

This is what has happened with Inka.

Would you also vaccinate the maiden bitch that is due to be mated before her (hope to get one in whelp at least after two failed attempts).

If I am lucky enough to get both bitches in whelp (about 6 weeks apart if they follow their usual pattern) then I hope to keep the best bitch pup from the two litters, as both males are older, might not be much choice.

> He uses a broad spectrum antibiotic

Are breeders (and vets) not at all concerned about the overuse of antibiotics - a major problem in humans too ??

One of many articles on the subject

I used the Herpes jab when I traveled overseas to mate my bitch. I haven't used it before or since. However it car do no harm to try Barabara, and yet I would do the youngster too just to cover all bases.
Good luck we will have fingers crossed for you.
Aileen

Mine won't give Antibiotics and US repro specialist 'Dr Hutch' agrees that they should not be given
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=1224

"DrHutch: Putting on bitches on antibiotics pre-breeding actually makes them more prone to infectious disease by killing normal organisms, especially when we use the GOOD drugs like Baytril. Occasionally, we may see a bitch with an infection... but there will be signs of that infection - redness, abnormal discharge, smelling - just like if you have an infection in your ear, you're not going to not know it. Bacteria does not equal infection. "

I now routinely vaccinate all my girls before mating. Maiden bitches can still carry the virus, and it is estimated that up to 80% of all dogs in the uk have had the virus at some point in their lives.

"In adult dogs, the virus infects the reproductive tract, which allows it to be sexually transmitted or passed to puppies during birth. The disease can cause abortion, stillbirths, and infertility. However, sexual contact is not the primary cause of transmission. Most adult dogs become infected by inhaling the virus via airborne particles spread by coughs or sneezes. It can also be contracted by drinking from a contaminated water bowl, or even just by sniffing or licking another dog that is shedding the virus."

That has always made me wonder if most dogs are exposed why do we see so few problems? 

One of my girls has missed twice in a row even with the CHV - sadly now too old to try again. 

Did you ever get your girl checked out Ells-bells with a specialist regarding internal examinations and other tests after she missed twice?

>One of my girls has missed twice in a row even with the CHV - sadly now too old to try again.

Had she like mine previously had a litter?

My FCR's dam has been mated 4 times since her first (And only) litter and she's not got into whelp (She was mated back to the same dog that she had her only litter by, twice, and didn't take).   The next two attempts were to a different (Younger) sire and again she hasn't taken.   The younger has been sperm tested and everything ok there so for the second attempt the bitch had the herpes vaccination, drove down to Keith at Fit n Fertile, did everything that  was told etc.  and still nothing.   So the bitch has now been spayed.

Yes, she has had 2 previous litters.  So frustrating not knowing why...

Sounds exactly like my girl then :(

Lets hope third time lucky

Fingers crossed for both you and I on our third attempts...

February/March for me what about you?

Mine is now over 8 so its a no go for us - shame...

I think this will be a last attempt for us, though she will only be 7 in July. 

I prefer not to breed once they are past 7.

Depends if she goes 6 months from last season or not, April it should be

I've had my bitches done with the Herpes vax for the last few litters. They get the first one and when they are scanned and pregnant (around 32-35 days) get the 2nd one.
If I'm using an outside dog im usually asked to get a swab done in case of any infection. Larry at Idexx has told me ABs are not to be used routinely unless there is an actual infection but some bacteria will always be found in that area.
I had one bitch tested for infection/progesterone by a repro specialist. Mated on correct day. Missed. She was mated to 2 more dogs + 1 AI and only ever had one litter. When she was spayed my vet said she had several cysts on her ovaries.
I wonder if when doing progesterone tests we stop too soon and some bitches don't actually go on to ovulate for some reason.

>Larry at Idexx has told me ABs are not to be used routinely unless there is an actual infection but some bacteria will always be found in that area.

It's so difficult to know what's right to do, it's obviously just not black and white with a clear path :( Whoever said 'breeding is easy money' - obviously have never bred before!

Keith from Fit and Fertile works closely with a vet who specialises in repro, and he advises to use antibiotics.