Hi,

I have recently encountered an interesting scenario and wondered what other breeders approach would be to this.

I sold a puppy at around 4 months old having had both sets of vaccinations and being assessed as "healthy" by my vet on two occasions.  I arranged the "normal" 4 weeks KC insurance for the new owners.

A couple of weeks after they had the puppy they took her to the vets just to have her checked over (they had no concerns over her) - my contract did say to do this within the normal 5 days (as it standardly does).  When the vets checked her they said they could hear a "mild" heart murmur and suggested that they brought her back after four weeks.  Four weeks later their vets said the heart murmur was now a grade 4-5 and referred her to a cardiologist.  They have since had her checked by the cardiologist who says it is grade 4 but if it doesn't deteriorate, no further action is required.

The problem is that the 4 weeks free insurance expired in between the visit where the heart murmur was first discovered and the second visit where it was graded 4-5 by their vet.  At this time they decided that rather than renew with the KC insurance they wanted to go elsewhere.  Obviously the new insurance won't cover any treatment if it became necessary or for the specialist referral because it was a pre-existing condition when they took out the new insurance.  The owners are now asking me for a contribution towards the cost of her appointments with a cardiologist.  I have told them that the KC insurance should have covered this sort of eventuality and had they continued cover with them they should have been covered by their insurance since the condition wasn't discovered until after the four weeks cover had started (my vet would vouch for this).  I have offered to take the puppy back and refund her purchase price but stated that I wouldn't pay for vets fees, which is what insurance is for.  They are insistent that the KC insurance wouldn't have covered it.

What I am interested in finding out from other breeders is

1) Would you expect KC insurance to have covered this had they continued the policy with them? (I have actually contacted them to clarify this)
2) Would any breeders out there be paying towards veterinary fees if these would have been covered if they hadn't changed insurance companies?

Sorry for the rambling post but couldn't seem to condense it further!

A horrible position to be in, unfortunately not that uncommon...

My last litter included a female pup that fractured her foot playing rough with her brother in the garden...her owners (had paid deposit) were made fully aware and offered a refund or replacement from the litter, I said I would keep her. They spoke to the vets, viewed the x ray, discussed treatment plans and decided to go ahead with the puppy. They came back to me 4 weeks later and said they were going to take me to court if I didn't refund their money (which is already offered to do if they brought her back) but they refused to give the puppy back. Absolute nightmare !   Through my experience I found out the following....

Legally puppies come under the 'Sale of Goods Act' and as long as you had no knowledge of the condition  or disclosed it fully then unfortunately for the new owners (but fortunately for you) it is a buyer beware situation. The owners have no claim against you for any costs arising from the animal they bought from you whatsoever.

Insuring the animal is the owners responsibility and anything outside of their insurance or not covered for any reason whatsoever is also their responsibility.

They are lucky to have the option to return the puppy to you and obtain a refund. It's a good thing for the puppy that you are happy to do  this. I also offer this option but I know breeders who don't/can't.

You can read the full Agria terms here:
http://www.agriavet.co.uk/globalweb/Resources/Agria_Pet_Insurance_Full_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf

I can only see that it would not have paid out should the condition have shown up within ten days after the insurance having been taken out, so if I am reading it right, yes the pup would have been covered had the owners continued with it.

I think you have done everything you reasonably can be expected to and you have your own vet's evidence, so no, I would not be paying for vet costs. You sold a vet checked and insured pup and have offered to have it back and refund the price too.

Thank you both of you for your replies.  I am still waiting to hear back from the KC insurance/ AGRIA to confirm that had the owners continued cover they would have been covered for this.  I am pretty sure it should otherwise I will be suggesting new owners take out full policies from the word go!  I am sure that a good number of people who are unlucky enough to encounter a problem during the first four weeks aren't lucky enough that treatment of the condition falls entirely within the four weeks cover. 

It also seems from both your replies I am not as unreasonable as the new owner implies I am for not forking out for vet fees which may be ongoing.

I feel really sorry for the new owners and the pup (who is oblivious to all this and acts like a normal puppy) but I just cannot be held responsible for the consequences of them making a mistake with their insurance (which they deny they have done).

For anyone reading this in a similar situation...  I have had clarification from Agria (KC Insurance) that they would have covered the condition since it hadn't been picked up on previously and had the owners continued cover from the four weeks free insurance the condition would have continued to be covered.

Unfortunately the puppies owners despite being shown this are still insisting we should be paying for her treatment or we should be refunding them without them returning her.  I am of the opinion that this is exactly what insurance is for, I just wish they would return her!

So basically they bought a puppy, failed to insure her and now want you to pay their vets bills? Wow, they really are mad! 

Private sale of puppies come under 'Caveat Emptor', so unless your registered as a business breeding dogs they have no claim on you as they were happy with their purchase at the time.

No different to buying a car from a private seller.  You would not be liable for faults that develop later and the garage bills.