I don't normally spay my bitches.  I'm a firm believer in 'they get the hormones for a reason'.  But I have spayed all but 1 of my girls over the last year and I am now converted.  What a difference!!  My girls are more relaxed and happier.  They play constantly and snuggle up together.  That 'smell' has gone.  Their coats are thick and glossy and my slim one has put on some weight.  All in all, a much more relaxed, happy home.
I know some of you might read this and think that it's your entire dogs right now, but my girls were so 'edgy' and nervous before and wouldn't play.  It was like their was always some unknown competition between them?
Has anyone else found this?  I'm quite astonished in the difference in them.

To be honest, much as almost all mine were spayed once retired (show/breeding), I never saw much difference in how they were, other than clearly more than happy not to need to be confined roughly every 8 months!!!   Yes some tended to put on weight unless watched, and some tended to grow heavier coats (which in my Bassets, wasn't needed!!)   I noticed no difference in 'smell' either much as when in season, even I could smell their condition, never mind my boys.

I always spayed however, because apart from not needing bitches continually cycling in a small show/breeding outfit unless they were still 'active', for me there's enough evidence to have persuaded me that leaving a bitch entire did increase the risk (only a risk, but we had one) of mammary, ovarian or uterine cancer later on.  

On the other hand, I'm not for castration unless for medical need.   I guess mine isn't a breed that particularly need to be 'calmed down' even if that happens!!   I'd certainly not castrate at under a year, unless for something like retained testicles.   We kept our males entire, apart from a couple we had to castrate in old age, because of prostate problems (not cancer) and without exception they were all fine - properly kept they couldn't escape even if they were more likely to go off hunting, not bitching.  Those we did have to have castrated, I bitterly regretted because they did go 'soft', lacked their former zip, tended to put on weight, and again grow thicker coats.

I'm glad for you that spaying has been a success!!

Very interesting! Mine are a snuggly breed anyway so my 3 entire bitches are usually curled up together, but it's nice to know it has relaxed your girls so much. :-)

It happened with a friend's dogs. There was often a lot of tension between her two spaniel bitches, but she was wary of having them spayed in case it made things worse. They both had phantom pregnancies with each season though which they wanted to avoid, and had no plans to breed, so she did take the chance and get them spayed. Now they are much happier and much closer to each other, and don't get into nearly as many disagreements any more.

To be honest I haven't noticed any differences in any way -well the Papillon bitches get a fuller and more difficult coat after being spayed, but that's about it. And it's nice to have less bitches come into season. :) For bitches I breed from I tend to spay at around 7-8 years of age, but I have several that have been spayed earlier as well 3 that I did not want to breed from due to them not being good enough and two that got pyometra. I have 3 litter sisters where one was spayed due to pyo, one due to me not wanting to breed from her, and one has had a litter and will stay entire until older. (They are 4 at the moment.) They are all as energetic, the entire bitch has the better coat, but she is overall better. They all play a lot with other dogs etc.

In fact the dogs of mine that play the most of them all, with each other, are the 3 entire Malinois bitches. They just never stop!

>In fact the dogs of mine that play the most of them all, with each other, are the 3 entire Malinois bitches. They just never stop!

That would be right entire bitches would have more get up and go than neutered ones in my experience. I an not surprised they are livelier than neutered ones.

That would be right entire bitches would have more get up and go than neutered ones in my experience. I an not surprised they are livelier than neutered ones.

No they are not livelier -not at all. There is no difference in energy levels. This is a breed that doesn't start to slow down until they turn 12, and the spayed 4 year olds are certainly lively -in fact one of them I would call hyperactive. I was only talking about PLAYING with other dogs.

The first bitch I had speyed,  was about 6 owing to a mammary lump.  We waited as long as we could but as it became apparent that it was getting bigger with her season approaching,  I caved in and got her speyed.

She was always an ambitious bitch,  and we'd  had to be careful not to let her boss us around.   Couldn't even allow her on the sofa or she'd get 'uppity'  

Afterwards,  it became clear that she just didn't want to take over  anymore and we could enjoy cuddles with her on the sofa.   She also became much more likely to listen to me when out on a walk,  which was lovely :-)

It didn't appear to affect how my three bitches interacted.   They'd never been moody,  not even with all 3 being in season more or less together/one after the other.    Nor have they ever been moody with a phantom,  though they all had them at one time or another.

Interestingly,  when we lost her last year, it became apparent that she really was the matriarch,  top bitch,  whatever you want to call it.   Though she never so much as curled her lip or even grumbled at her pups or her grand pups.   I always felt she was far too permissive with the youngsters,  but clearly she was in charge.    The remaining two were a little lost at first,  and it's taken a year for them to adjust.  But they are fine together as they always have been.

My youngster does miss her gran though,  they were the chief cause of frolicks and meyhem,  her mum has never been one to play with other dogs,  she prefers to play with and cuddle her humans.

Cutewolf, your response hit me more because 2 of mine are spaniels.  Must be a spaniel thing to be moody/hormonal!!lol My 2 didn't play and were always posturing at each other but not any more, now they play and snuggle and the stiff posturing when passing each other has stopped too.  But I must say, my GSD bitch is less nervy since her op, has gained much needed weight and has a fuller coat.

My reply would almost echo Mamabas.

I do happen to have just had one of my 3 litter sisters spayed & they are 2 on Sunday. This is the youngest I have had spayed & I would breed from her 2 sisters more than her(if i do breed again). Having a short coated breed we have never really notice any huge coat change. There is also no change in weight, I do believe that can be a poor excuse personally.

I have only one male, who is entire & he is 14.5 years & I have no intention to castrate him even though we have his female relatives...mind you only 2 to come in season(other 5 are spayed) :)

Having a short coated breed we have never really notice any huge coat change. There is also no change in weight, I do believe that can be a poor excuse personally.

I think a lot of what I saw was my experience with my breed (only).   I had my Whippet spayed at 11 months (my vet said wait for one season which I did until it was clear her first season was going to follow her mother and half-sisters .... well into their first year!)     She does tend to put on weight, but has had NO coat change.  

Re weight gain, or loss - when my lot were in quarantine, I saw a change in weight more or less every time we went in to see them (every 2 weeks as they were across country - change of plans meant we relocated in the East, and they were kennelled in the West - I didn't want to move them however).   This was espcially relevant in the 3 youngsters in there - one time they'd be gaining too much so I'd tell them to cut back..... the next visit, they'd started looking ribby so I asked them to up their food.   Perhaps I just automatically adjust the feed amount when they are always with me!!!

>Perhaps I just automatically adjust the feed amount when they are always with me!!!

I totally am in agreement here.  I go by feel and adjust accordingly.  I think Barbara is the same.

You know how your own dogs should feel without weighing them.

> > There is also no change in weight, I do believe that can be a poor excuse personally.
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My meaning of this is joe public say their dog/bitch if fat because it is castrated/spayed. One watches weight the same way as an entire dog/bitch

My spayed bitch is still very fit and well muscled and competing in agility. Her spayed sister is one of the top agility dogs in the country. Yet their entire sister waddles when she walks :-(
It's very much down to owners!

Spaying and castration do slow the metabolism, meaning neutered animals will put on weight unless fed less or exercised more. It also alters the way body fat is laid down - males (of species other than dogs as well) can become very heavy over the neck and shoulders.

> I think Barbara is the same

I use 200g for my breed as a rough guide/starting point for the average adult bitch with most middle end foods (24 - 26% protein, 16 - 18% fat).

At the moment my oldest two get about 170g, the middle ones (6 and 8 get 200g), the 3 year old just a bit more say 225, but when moulting needs more.  The youngest is on 250, also needs her food upped quite a bit when moulting as seems to drop weight. 

The sire of youngest, is by the sire of the second youngest, and both tend to be more on the go than most I have had.

The 8, 11 and 15 year olds are spayed the other three entire.