I know the age old discussion of insurance has been talked about many times but I got George's renewal through...£103 per month!!!

I really don't think I can justify that. He has no ongoing illnesses just previous injuries that require no treatment now and I wouldn't put him through chemo if he had cancer.  I like the peace of mind with insurance but I think I will save that money and more in another account. I also have a credit card.

I will get third party insurance as I feel that is essential but I am so upset it is awful.

I know bills can rocket and more so in a slightly older dog but even so there can't be many illnesses that cost over £100 per month. I will have to take the risk as far as injuries are concerned.

Sorry for moaning but I genuinely astounded at the increase :(

Wow that's a bit ott don't blame you for having a moan.

If you become a member of Dogs Trust it covers you for third party insurance. Don't know how much it is for third party insurance. Membership of Dogs Trust is £25 per year, £12.50 per year for over 60s
http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/giving/membership/default.aspx

OMG that's £1236 a year!!!!

I'm planning to change my girls insurance as the premium for next year they just sent has gone up to £320 for the year. Man I thought that was high.

I told them they'd priced themselves out of surely anyone's range. If he had a load of ongoing issues fair enough but it's been cruciates etc that are years old!

> but even so there can't be many illnesses that cost over £100 per month.

I have no insurance.  Simply because I have too many dogs.  But I have 2 old girls on monthly meds.  The one with epilepsy and a heart condition costs over £100 a month.  For Vetmedin, Fortekor, Fuisimide, Epiphen and Libromide.

She has done so well on this medication that I couldn't possibly deny her being so happy on them.  I see that I shall obviously have to consider going on the game if costs keep rising.  :-)

So no solid gold hip replacements then.
I'm looking at more then life time one now, got quoted about £160 a year.

>I'm looking at more then life time one now, got quoted about £160 a year.

that sounds good. who with?

Age 8 seems to be the big price hike. But then what happens when he's 9?? My partner offered to pay half but I just think it's far far too much. If he was on meds that cost over £100 of course I'd pay it but he's not at the moment-he's on NOTHING.

how much was  it this year? just wondering how much the actual increase was?

>Age 8 seems to be the big price hike.

Same happened to me when my 2 oldest turned 8.  Up until this point they were quite happy to take my payments content with the knowledge that younger dogs get ill less often. When they turn 8 these companies start to get a bit nervous that they might have to pay back a portion of the thousands of pounds we have paid them over the years so they up the premiums to such a level that they know most will cancel.

I now have the Dogs Trust policy which covers all 5 of my dogs for 3rd party, which realistically is the only payment I couldn't find the money for myself.

I feel your pain - and for me, it's always the excess figure that finishes the question of whether to insure, or not!!  I had a similar shock with my car insurance and more so the RAC figure this time.   I did some searching around, and in the end, saved over £100 between both, by going elsewhere.

We never insured over the years, because with our numbers, it wasn't realistic.  Plus we had a vet who would let us stage pay if we hit a bad patch.   However, down to two only, I did take quotes, and nearly passed out.   I wanted insurance, not to buy the companies!!   And one of my now two breeds isn't known for health issues either.  They were both youngsters too, although not puppies.   Ridiculous.   Not that interest rates are worth considering these days, I still prefer to keep my money on my own Bank account!

I agree, everything costs more these days, but there is a limit re insurance!!!

Reply to Schnauday.

   Dogstrust do not admit breeders to their membership scheme -at least insofar as insurance is concerned.

It really is a shame that such prejudice exists. Perhaps the KC could offer a similar scheme to responsible breeders.
We have only  two of our ten dogs insured. Most of mine are very elderly now and premiums would be too much. Fortunately, they have been a pretty healthy lot but I do worry about the possibility of serious illness/injury.

>Dogstrust do not admit breeders to their membership scheme -at least insofar as insurance is concerned.<br />

Bit of a grey area, as of course many of a breeders dogs may be ex breeding (after all many rescues have been bred from too) and also the definition of breeder. 

Most good breeders are not at the level of being licensed, so not breeders according to the legal definition for licensing.

I can't or the life of me find the Policy wording now, but it did seem to leave wriggle room.  Did seem to be Work or Breeding in a commercial sense, as in primary use.

I agree that the Kennel club should offer a third party only Policy.

In the Old days (late 80's) before Pet Plan took over Dog Breeders Insurance company they offered Third Party Insurance as part of breed and other dog club memberships.

Just sent the following question in to them:

"I am a Trust member which includes Third Party Insurance.  I show my dogs and breed approximately once a year in order to continue my line and am not a 'Licensed Breeder'.  Does the Third Party Insurance  apply to non Commercial level of breeding, from my dogs whose primary purpose is being Family companions? Most of my dogs (ages 2 to 15 years) are spayed.  Does this mean we are excluded from the Insurance?  Are the neutered ones covered, or does the fact they have ever reproduced exclude them.  Are the youngsters yet to ever have a litter excluded. "

Dogstrust do not admit breeders to their membership scheme -at least insofar as insurance is concerned.


Doesn't surprise me and I for one will NEVER again support them after how they behaved after PDE. People only seem to remember the RSPCA, well the Dogs Trust did the same; set up a webpage saying how wrong it was to breed dogs for showing, they pulled out of Crufts and ALL other KC events etc. We stopped supporting them them, up until then had done. Every time I get asked in the street or supermarket to donate to DT I say to them "One word only; CRUFTS!" and they look at me not understanding at all -clearly they have forgotten as well......But I haven't. DT actually removed the webpage in question, replaced it with one not worded as strongly, but it did exist. (I have found links to it, but all are non working.) A mention here on a BCC news page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7620507.stm

DT phoned me asking for donations soon after PDE and I told them what I thought. The man on the phone said something along the lines of "Well I accept that you support showing at Crufts, but the majority of our members do NOT."

Don't see why KC can't offer Affix holders Third party Insurance in same way as DT do.

Right who do we need to contact at KC.

Seems KC are disappointed they don't get more suggestions from Grass roots, maybe if there was somewhere/someone specific individuals could send suggestions too, we would, as at present I don't think most of us can be bothered with the supposed liaison reps, if we even know who they are.

that sounds good. who with?

More than

As it was brought up in a reasont thread about insurers not insuring dog if there bred. The more than one says they do not insure breeding dogs so when they phoned me after getting a quote online I asked them about it. She told me if you breed more than 2 litters from the dog then they won't insure it as its more dogs used for commercial breeding for money they won't insure

The more than one says they do not insure breeding dogs so when they phoned me after getting a quote online I asked them about it. She told me if you breed more than 2 litters from the dog then they won't insure it as its more dogs used for commercial breeding for money they won't insure

Hm two points here.
1. Bitch A could have one litter of 15, total 15 pups. Bitch B could have four litters of two, total 8 pups. Bitch B would surely have generated a lot less profit.
2. I think insurance companies SHOULD insure back yard breeders and puppy farmers dogs -it might encourage them to actually seek veterinary help.

'Right who do we need to contact at KC'

I'll be asking about this, for sure.

I phoned DT this morning and put the question to them. I found myself ( pathetically as usual ) trying to defend my corner. Seems we are  an amorphous mass, indistinguishable from those breeding without a care for health etc. The words the lady used were 'it's a business', so breeders not welcome.

Well, I 've never held DT in high regard . Now I have even less time for them. I'm fed up with being 'chugged' by them when I go shopping. I'll be sorely tempted not to tell them just where they can stick their collection tin.

smithy it has doubled!!!! 

Is there anywhere else that does third party insurance other than the dogs trust?

The words the lady used were 'it's a business', so breeders not welcome.

It's amazing how widespread that belief is. You breed, so you must run a business. Well my "business" would be a very bad one for sure, making huge losses every year!

But as you can insure commercial vehicles and not just private ones, why on earth do the insurance companies not make use of this gap in the market! (Apprentice, anyone?)

Bit off track but, I didn't realise DT supported the PDE program! They won't be getting my money now!

but is that just the person you spoke to interpretation?  Would want to see the exact definitions and wording.  Looks like I may be cancelling my membership.

As for the gap in the market I think the treason that pet Plan didn't take that aspect on is it is not a money spinner as a stand alone.

As sadly with so many Welfare agencies they are very opposed to breeding. 

Funny that as no breeding means no pets, no responsible breeding means only irresponsible breeding of which they then pick up the pieces.

So they decry good responsible breeding while in effect supporting, and pushing as superior the results through rescue of irresponsible breeding.

Strange.

When I phoned this morning ,I asked about 3rd party insurance through the membership scheme. I told the lady I had 10 dogs, most of them very elderly , but admitted  to being an occasional breeder. The lady immediately said she would have to speak to someone ( line manager ?) and then came back to me to say that breeding was a business and they would not be able to consider me on the scheme. As I said in my earlier post, I tried to put my case that responsible breeders have a life long commitment to the the dogs they breed and theirs are not the dogs currently filling the rescue centres. But to no avail. I felt pretty humiliated and wished I hadn't bothered to phone.
It's  laughable after a couple of glasses of wine,that they believe I run a business for profit. Maybe I should send them copies of my credit card statements itemising dog food bills, vets accounts, etc etc - I'm clearly rubbish at business.
Yep, it's a paradox. They decry responsible breeding yet promote dog rescue as the only ethical  means of obtaining a pet. Those rescue dogs are the result of irresponsible breeding practice . When did it all become so crazy ?
Beam me up any time  !

>When I phoned this morning ,I asked about 3rd party insurance through the membership scheme. I told the lady I had 10 dogs, most of them very elderly , but admitted  to being an occasional breeder. The lady immediately said she would have to speak to someone ( line manager ?) and then came back to me to say that breeding was a business and they would not be able to consider me on the scheme.

I am a member of the dogs trust and have been for a few years purely to get the insurance. I obviously didn't read the details carefully enough as I didn't realise I wasn't eligible as I have bred 3 litters in my nearly 30 years of dog ownership. I did have cause to claim on the insurance a couple of years ago and they paid out nearly £2000 for me. I was not asked any details about myself or even any details about the dog that caused the claim, only the circumstances which lead to the incident. I dont want to support the DT but do feel happier knowing I have 3rd party insurance as it doesn't seem to be available anywhere else

Thing is it doesn't give you the Policy wording anywhere. 

If I remember it said something about breeding and working dogs used in the course of business.

I have never claimed.

Seems ironic then that Trevor Cooper recommends joining Dog Trust when he does his talks on Dog Law. Presumably he doesn't realise that a good number of his audience wouldn't be covered.

>Seems ironic then that Trevor Cooper recommends joining Dog Trust when he does his talks on Dog Law. Presumably he doesn't realise that a good number of his audience wouldn't be covered.

Or that in fact it is only a Dogs Trust contact  staff assumption that they aren't covered, it's the policy wording and underwriters small print that is important.

>Seems ironic then that Trevor Cooper recommends joining Dog Trust when he does his talks on Dog Law. Presumably he doesn't realise that a good number of his audience wouldn't be covered.

I just had a look on the site. I dont see how they can say they dont cover breeders etc. The insurance is touted as one of the benefits of joining. It doesnt mention any exclusions in the descriptions of the insurance. When joining the trust again it doesnt ask for any details of whether you are a breeder or even what dogs you have etc.  As I said when I claimed I was not asked for any details about the dog involved. Not even its name. or my involvement with dogs or how many I had. I dealt with the insurance company who underwrite the insurance rather than the trust itself and presumably if they didnt cover breeders etc then they would have asked  if I was a breeder just to avoid having to pay out

I think if anyone wants 3rd party cover then the best thing to do is just join and dont ask any questions about what limitations there are on cover. Membership is my only involvement with the DT however and that is purely for my  benefit. I will not donate any other money to them.

Age 8 seems to be the big price hike

Seems that way, when my old boy reached 8 his premium was hiked through the roof, so I looked around for a better deal,   with the cover I wanted,  went with Tesco in the end,   with there premium policy,     a few mths after I took it out,  he started with eye trouble, resulting in removal of the eye,  Tesco were great, paid out in full (less excess)   with no hassle,  have stayed with them  since, saw my old girl through her problems without any problem, and I have insured my new boy with them too, just had a  £500 bill settled without any issue  due to a life threatening infection.

Since you have no ongoing issues, why not look for another company, I would recommend Tesco , not bad premiums they don`t hike up the policy  to much and pay out quickly  without any backtracking, or hassle, All you have to do is download the claim form  from their site, get your vet to fill their bit in and send it off, my last claim took  3 weeks at most for them to settle with me.

I'm with Tescos.....

Although they do an accident and injury only policy for £6.50 per month I have just discovered that covers £3000 per injury for 12 months and includes third party insurance. I may be tempted by this. Of course pre existing stuff is not covered but it depends what the injury is and whether the vet says it's related to anything previous eg if your pet fell down a rabbit hole and broke his leg the vet would have to say whether the previous cruciate problems were the cause. I suppose in that case you could submit the claim anyway and see what happened.
Food for thought.

> Although they do an accident and injury only policy for £6.50 per month I have just discovered that covers £3000 per injury for 12 months and includes third party insurance

I guess this wont cover illnesses. Anoying if the vet says for example the cruciate problem was not caused by an injury. thinking about most of my vet visits they have not been injuries so dont know how useful this would be. nice and cheep though

Well no it won't cover illness but up to present he's not been ill-that's one reason I dont agree with the massive premium hike. He's more likely to injure himself as he's still bonkers at times and he's never been to the vet ill.

He's had bilateral cruciate repairs so hopefully they won't need doing again but if he cuts himself, eats poison, breaks a leg, gets bitten etc they're covered.

Some illness can cost a lot initially but it's usually (in my limited experience) the injuries that are out the blue that sting you for cash. But he illnesses often cost more in the long run.

For an extra £50 a year than I would be paying for third party for me it's worth it for that extra piece of mind sis I am not paying £103 per month for the full policy.

I can't remember the details but am sure I read somewhere of an insurance company that will cover pre-existing conditions if a dog has not had subsequent claims within a certain time frame - possibly 2 years? Maybe somebody else will remember the thread that had that information on it?

My 9 year old GR costs me £79 a  month and I am also considering not renewing his insurance this time around - the premium for him goes up when he reaches 9 and this was the  cost of the policy when he reached 8 years old so am dreading the renewal in December.My other dogs cost £21 a month for a small 7 year old TerrierX and £26 a month for a WSD who is appoaching 3. 

Yeah but if I go anywhere else it's still over £90 a month for lifetime cover. It's just too much so savings,credit card and accident/injury policy look the way forwards.

I wonder if this 'pedigree dogs' thing has anything to with the huge premiums? The woman I spoke to on the phone kept repeating 'oh but he's a pedigree boxer' and my response was along the lines of 'who has been responsibly bred, parents appropriately health tested, etc etc' so maybe there will one day be some sort of clause that if there is no proof of health tests the premiums cost more, hence the people who responsibly buy their dogs dont get stung for the health problems churned out by the BYB.

I even asked if the premium would be different if he was crossed say with a bulldog or other supposed 'unhealthy' bred and she said it would likely be less as he would be a crossbreed not a pedigree. Makes no sense at all to me.

> Makes no sense at all to me

Insurance premiums are based on a variety of things - depends on the brokers what they place emphasise on and which sector of the market they are aiming at - much the same for cars - if you get a quote on a price comparison site there will be a huge range :) :) A lot is based on the statistics of previous claims for the breed, the average vet costs in your area etc etc. Some insurance companies just don't want to insure your dog hence they will put in a high quote :) :)

Yes well that makes perfect sense to me.

Without all the badly and commercially bred dogs going to all the useless owners who dump them in rescue, there would be very few dogs needing to be rescued.

If not enough dogs need rescuing, there would be no need for Dogs Trust, Many Tears etc.  and their business model goes down the pan.

There's method in their madness ;-)

I understand that but there seems to be no consistency. I understand they have to make a profit but as jackbox says tesco are the most reasonably priced for their 8 year old boxer yet they are extortionate for my 8 year old boxer based in Yorkshire.  Plus the whole crossbreeds are healthier argument seems to prevail as even if he was crossed with a so called unhealthy breed the premium was lower.  And I really cannot justify (and neither could their sales person, but then again they don't do the actuarial work) why the premium doubled.

I'm certainly not against insurance and if i ever got another pup I would definitely have it again.

True Dill, but why should those dogs be cheaper to insure just because they are bred to buy a new sofa, holiday, etc? Yet those with less potential on paper to be affected by a hereditary or genetic condition because the breeders have knowledge about what they are doing are stung with a hefty premium to compensate for the less well bred dogs. It just makes me angry that's all. You do your research and are responsible yet you seem to pay the price :(

I worked out what was going on right at the start, when pet insurance was fiirst invented and offered.

Refused to take part as I felt that in the long run it would not benefit the owners or the pets.

So I have been using a separate savings account for 30+ years.

But so far it has been a benefit to me as the premiums were fine and after a few injuries I've more than recouped my money-not the point I know as I'd have preferred him to not be injured but he's fixed and fine now. It's just this increase is ludicrous so it will be savings and accident insurance from now. I'm glad I read it properly and not just carried on with the monthly payments!!!

I totally agree, it's ludicrous to lump all pedigrees in the same category, when some will have been bred from health tested parents and have a much better chance of never needing huge amounts of veterinary intervention.

However, historically, mongrels may hav had the edge on health, partly because they were in the minority, and partly because owners of mongrels were less likely to access health insurance no matter what.

Has there been enough time for insurance companies to establish statistically whether designer mongrels are helathier or unhealthier than pedigrees?  and of course you also have the fact to consider, that commercially bred pedigrees are in the majority.  As we've seen, very few organisations concerned with dogs/dog breeding can identify the difference between the two.

Personally I've always felt the best thing I can do is vote with my money.

More Than significantly hike premium's once a dog gets above 6yo-7yo.
Admitted one of mine that was insured with them had got a few medical issues as she got older
(she passed away at nearly 11 y.o.) The final monthly premiums were £170-180 a month from memory.
Although they were good at the time for paying out the claims quickly.

Currently with Pet Plan (classic covered for life at 7K per year) with 14 month old Boxer pup that has been insured with them since 8 weeks old
Renewal just in for £663.56 a year. No claims in previous year. Older two dogs not insured but with 'practise plan' at own vets so get annual boosters, working and flea treatments plus 20% off and 10% off various in house vet treatment costs. Plus also have the accidental cover added too for any accidental injury.

Not sure re 3rd party if your home buildings/contents insurance will provide some level of cover.
It is worth asking when taking out contents insurance if you do have third party liability for your dogs.
But agree there is certainly a gap in the market for providing such cover as separate insurance for those that don't have pet insurance
or home contents insurance.

I think you will find that PetPlan will cover any condition which has not raised its head again for 2 years.

But not insure an 8 year old dog on the lifetime policy :(

Reply received from Dogs Trust, so |I think we can go with the interpretation as with Breeding and sale of dogs Act, as to what is breeding for commercial gain.

Quote:

"Dear Barbara,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding your Dogs Trust membership. Further to your query regarding your dog and the third party insurance cover, we confirm that as a Dogs Trust member you will be covered under the Dogs Trust third party liability insurance provided your dog is a pet and not a working dog, or being used for any commercial purposes. Your dog is not required to be neutered for this, however if you are breeding your dogs to sell/for commercial purposes they will not be covered.

You can see more information about membership on the FAQ's page via the link below. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to call us on 020 7837 0006. Thank you very much for your support of Dogs Trust.

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/giving/membership/faq/default.aspx#.VFeAPvVybcs

Kind Regards,

Cat Charles

Cat.Charles@dogstrust.org.uk
Dogs Trust - A Dog Is For Life

Visit our website at http://www.dogstrust.org.uk
or call us on: 020-7837 0006"

Seems like if they don't ask don't say.

The above was a reply to the question asked below:

"Message: I am a Trust member which includes Third Party Insurance. I show my dogs and breed approximately once a year in order to continue my line and am not a 'Licensed Breeder'. Does the Third Party Insurance apply to non Commercial level of breeding, from my dogs whose primary purpose is being Family companions? Most of my dogs (ages 2 to 15 years) are spayed. Does this mean we are excluded from the Insurance? Are the neutered ones covered, or does the fact they have ever reproduced exclude them. Are the youngsters yet to ever have a litter excluded. "