A friend of mine has a litter of lab pups at the moment aged 6 weeks. She is very worried as one of the pups is very quiet and doesn't appear to see things, it is also very obvious that she listens and smells alot too.
I was at her house all day yesterday and we set up a kind of obstacle course for this pup and she did manage it if we called her. She also appears to walk towards the TV when it is on and looks up.
Things like the food tray etc though she appears not to see and smells her way there!
I would say she can see something even if it is only light/dark etc.
On Monday she is taking the pup to the eye specialist but is worried that if the puppy is blind / partially sighted that the vet will advise PTS. Has anyone raised a puppy with a sight problem and what about training????? Is it fair on the pup?????? What kind of problems would she have??????
My personal view is that we don't put blind children to sleep but then I'm not going to have to raise the pup.
Any advise please.

This is almost identical to the situation where I am living at the moment! The pups eyes have been examined and the conclusion was that there was some sort of vision but to wait until 8 weeks to ascertain the extent. Personally I don't see that a blind puppy should be put to sleep automatically but they really do need a very special home if they aren't to be kept and it is up to the breeder (your friend) to decide what they feel is best for the pup.
Bec

It could be PPM Nicolla. This is a cut and past of an answer I posted on another thread.

Hi Jane

Persistent Pupillary Membrane
Only Basenji has been proved to be inherited. In all dogs the membrane is there in the foetus but over the last 3 weeks before birth undergoes spontaneous degeneration and in most dogs gone by 6 weeks.

Sometimes the membrane does not completely go and that is where the Persistent in PPM comes from. Extent and severity of “Persistence” varies from single strands of mesodermal tissue bridging the anterior of the iris through to cobweb like mesh of several strands.

It is unlikely to be associated with an obvious visual defect for which treatment is necessary. It’s significance largely rests with its genetic implications. Incidence in Basenji is high, 50% in most studies!

That is a simplified version of a college handout but basically, although it can occur in any breed under the KC/BVA/ISDS eye test scheme it is only tested for in Basenji. It just sounds in your case as if it was a little slow in dispersing Jane.

Best wishes, John

Certainly a canine opthelmologist will be able to tell you the full story. The worst possible is a detached retina or damage to optic nerve but with luck it will be neither.

Hoping things go well for you, please let us know, John

We have a chap comes to gundog training with his partially blind lab. This lab has the best nose going, retrieves dummies that others can't find and is just adorable.
Lorna

Having lived with a couple of dogs which have lost at least part of their sight in old age I can say they do adapt very well. My Kate had diabetis which led to sugar cataracts. She had zero sight but still enjoyed life. Incedentely, Anna is far better retrieving in the dark because she is forced to use her nose rather than her eyes!!

A young puppy born with limited sight would never know any difference so would adapt without any difficulty. I hope it's not a case with this puppy but time will tell.

Regards, John

I`m living with an almost blind dog at the moment & am finding it harder than she is . The worse thing I think is when she gets excited & turns around & round & then gets disorientated, I get hold of her to try & guide her & she won`t let me! It is very sad watching them being forced to slow down & she sleeps a lot more but she is content with her life & still enjoys her walks with all the rest of the dogs. Adores her bones & still manages to dig huge holes for me to fall in :) AND wanders off in the dark pretending to be deaf as well!!!! :)
Christine, Spain.

Thanks for the replies.
Some of you say a dog can be walked off lead still when it has lost its sight but do you think a puppy who has never seen anything would ever be able to be off lead. My friend is in Devon so lots of moorland walks.
I have seen this pup again today and she is extremely good with her nose and is so friendly. She jumps and cowers if you touch her but only if you didn't speak as you did it. As long as she can hear your voice she jumps around like any normal pup.
Tomorrow is the big day for this pup, so will let you all know.
Bec I hope your pup is fine too.

I've always walked even my old and blind ones off the lead but with a puppy who has never seen it really would not know any difference! It would need sympathetic handling particulaly in the early days but yes, it would work!

If it was me, I would use a gundog whistle with it right from day one for the recall because it carries so much better than voice and I think a blind dog could possibly fix the direction easier with a whistle than a voice. Care would obviously be needed in strange places because a blind dog could not see obstructions or possibly more importantly any drops. The thoughts of a dog running off of an unseen cliff. . . . . .

In the right hands the puppy could have a wonderful life!

When is it seeing the specialist?

Best wishes, John

Hi

Pup is seeing specialist tomorrow (Mon) at 5 pm.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Well the news is bad I'm afraid.
Pup may well have retinal detachment in both eyes.
Or she may have something called P?PV (sorry can't remember what the 2nd letter was). If it is this then as the eye grows, the condition may stay the same, but because the eye is larger she would be able to see something!
Sorry its not too clear but I was very upset. This litter is actually mine but didn't want the new owner to see it on this board until she'd be told. Didn't tell her there might be a problem because I didn't want her to sit and worry, as I have. She now knows as do her children who are devastated.
The specialist wants to see the pup again in 3 weeks and then every 3 weeks until she is 4 mths old. This is when the final decision on her future will be made, although it is going to be much harder at 4 mths of age for me to let her go. At the moment the specialist feels she has very little if any sight and I really can't imagine what she is going through! At the moment every time I see her or hold her I just end up in tears but tomorrow is another day and it can only get better. The specialist has said there are many homes out there for partially sighted dogs but I am willing to keep her on here.
Have booked her in for her jabs, and puppy classes and will take each day as it comes.
Any advise on raising this pup gratefully recieved.
Her new family were going to call her Sammy but I feel she needs something that really stands out. I already have a Whiskey, Beth, Tiegan, Brooke, Lottie, Ebony, Breeze, Quest, and River. Any ideas on a name???????????????

I’m so sorry! It sounds like Persistent Hyperplastic Primary Vitreous. I’m a bit tied up at the mo but when I get in tomorrow I’ll explain it too you

John

Sorry about the news Nicolla. I'm sure that John will fill you in with everything you need to know. When you're given this sort of information and you're already upset, then it's just too much to take in. Once you know what you are dealing with, then I'm sure you'll feel better. Go put the kettle on!!

Im so sorry to hear your news :-( Although I don't know much about PHPV I searched on the Internet for the condition and this seems to be a good page for information regarding PHPV. It is from Kerioaks homepage and discusses PHPV in Dobes and Staffys. (Hope its OK to link to someones homepage - I did look in the terms of service and couldnt see that it wasnt allowed but if its not then im sorry :-( ).

With regards to a name how about Gem? Its a pretty name for a black lab and is nice and short. Please keep us updated on how she progresses.

Thinking of you.

Ice Cosmos thanks for the link.
Thanks also to everyone for your help and advise.
I have decided to call her Bubbles. I have also decided that no matter whether she gains any sight or not that I will not have her PTS unless she decides she has had enough and does not enjoy life.
Have booked her into puppy classes with a trainer who has trained partially sighted dogs and she has said about using a vibrating collar. Does anyone know about these? Apparently they work with a remote and when the button is pressed the collar would vibrate slightly and she can be trained to sit. I could then give her a command such as come. The trainer uses clicker training also.

This is a very sad story....but if she has never had sight, in theory she won't miss it - blindness will, to her, be a normal state.

As for names, if she's a black lab, how about Magic?

Hi, we have a 9 month springer with severe retinal dysplasia, he is blind in one eye and only has about 60-70% vision with retinal folds in his left eye. We take him off lead every day and he copes very well he charges through the woods and dodges the trees and he is really happy as yet he has never bumped into anything. I find when I take him for a walk he is very good on the lead because he tends to walk closer to me and he studies whats in front of him more because he cant focus well. Dogs dont rely on their sight like we do apparently its their 3rd most important sense. I can remember when I found out that Barney was blind I was devestated but he knows no different as he was born like it infact I was more upset than he was. We do work alot harder on his recall than the other dogs because we need him to come back everytime due to his sight but he is very good on recall and will do anything for a treat so its been easy to train him.The only upset was we bought him to use as a stud dog but cant use him now and he is such a lovely looking springer.

well he has better sight than me, as I only have 20% in one eye, and around 15% in the other. I have had no better since birth and only know it is crap, as everyone else can see things I can't, and I cannot drive!

If the pup is only partially sighted, then should be able to lead a normal life as a pet, (no good for marking fallen birds, lol), but if he is very bad, I would always worry about him falling into holes or off cliffs/drops!

Sorry to hear about your pup, plenty of animals in the wild use scent and hearing well above eyesight, after all rhino's have bad sight but you wouldn't go in a field with one!
As for a name, she deserves something special, how about Phoenix?
Hayley

Sorry I had no time to answer you last night Nicolla but I see Ice Cosmos put a link to Christine’s site on for you. As usual Christine knows her stuff and has put the details on her site.

Dogs suffering from this can have varying degrees of sight so it is possible that there is something there although a specialist ophthalmologist would have a fair idea just how much. One other possible problem for the future. There is a possibility of cataracts forming. It may well not but forwarned is forarmed.

Training! Dogs are great at compensating and when they have never had one of their senses the compensation is instinctive and automatic! She would not even have noticed!!!! From your point of view, you heed to work to the senses which she has. My Kate, who was blind with sugar cataracts would walk to heel off lead, turning at a touch on her side. It takes a bit of thought to think of ways of utilising her senses but so much is possible and believe me, working together brings you both so much closer together. I know! My Bethany developed epilepsy at 18 months old and she developed into my all time favourite!

Vibrating collars. I have no experience of them but can see how they might help but I will say, be careful! You will be training with something which you must then carry for the rest of her life! If you forget it or if it breaks down you are lost! Another problem with then, and possible more significant is that being around the dogs neck it may tell the puppy that you want him but gives no clue where your are! This was the reason I suggested using a whistle in the earlier post. A gundog whistle is small and on a Lanyard is something you put on when you get dressed in the morning and take off last thing at night when you go to bed and in the mean time it sits there causing no hassle and is always ready for use. The sound carries a long way and would give a direction for the puppy to head in. Something like an Acme 210 is available from anywhere which sells gundog training equipment including Turnerrichards.co.uk The number denotes the pitch so if you loose one you can get another which sounds identical. Whistles cost around £3-50 and a lanyard about the same. The usual recall whistle is three short “Pips” on the whistle.

When training for gundog work I never use titbits but in the case of a blind dog this is another of the senses which you can utilise. Labradors love food and when I taught obedience I called it “The invisible Lead”! Keep commands to a minimum to start with and gradually add to them.

Please keep us up to date with how things are going, we are here both to lean on and to help

Best wishes, John

We have two partially sighted-deaf white Aussies in our family. They were victims of greedy breeders who bred merle to merle in hopes of having more merle puppies in their litters. The merles command a higher price than the tri-color Aussies do here. My daughter who is deaf looked for special needs dogs that needed to be rescued, and she found these two. They are wonderful pets who have had to learn sign language, but that was easy since everyone in the family already signs, and all of our dogs understand obedience commands in deaf sign language. Because the white dogs don't see well, we have to sign very closely to their faces, but they have enough sight to see hand movements. Our boy is particularly entranced with television because of the flickering lights. He follows the smell of food, and he has learned basic commands and been housetrained with lures for treats. Our girl has been with us for six weeks and is working on obedience, also. We have hearing and sighted Aussies, too. One of them, Maggie, has decided her "job" is to keep track of and to guard the deaf-blind dogs. She takes her job very seriously, and will not let anyone threaten, injure or otherwise abuse her charges.
It breaks my heart when people say that disabled dogs should be PTS. One must change one's expectations, learn flexibility and be ready for lots of puppy love with a partially sighted dog.

Hi Nicolla

I am sorry to read about your pup's problem and hope it is not too severe. I would like to ask you some questions and if/when you feel up to it could you contact me please?

Christine

Hi nicolla
sorry to here about the puppy
sandy