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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Breeding a litter from fully health tested PET dogs
- By Goldmali Date 23.10.14 21:24 UTC
I'm getting a new puppy tomorrow. It wasn't something I had planned, but I feel it is my responsibility, and I am able to give the pup a home, and I will love him. I think the background story illustrates pretty well how it ISN'T a good idea just to breed a one off litter as a pet owner, even if you do it responsibly.

I have a puppy buyer who really wanted to breed a litter from his bitch, to his other dog of the same breed, from another breeder. The dogs are nice looking, breed typical, but they have never been shown, or worked. They are pure pets, of good temperament. The bitch has littermates that have won numerous CCs and RCCs. Both dog and bitch were hip scored and eye tested with good results. The owner was confident he had many friends all wanting a puppy from his lovely dogs, and that he could sell any surplus if he got a big litter. So the bitch was mated to the dog.

The bitch had just 3 puppies. They were well reared. The many buyers did however not materialise. Only one friend still wanted a puppy. The breeder wanted to keep one so that left one to find a good home for. He was careful not to sell to just anyone, it had to be a GOOD home, of course. But he wasn't known in the breed at all, nor were his dogs. Adverts gained no response at all. Serious buyers would rather wait for a pup from parents proven in the showring or working, or from a breeder that was proven in the dogs they produce. The pups got to 8 weeks and the breeder could not keep more than one. The breeder of the sire ended up taking one to help out, so all was fine.

But just 48 hours after the one sold pup had gone to his new home, the new owner realised he couldn't cope with a puppy. He felt bad about it but was sensible enough to admit that it would be better if the puppy went to a different home. But of course, there were no homes readily available. Hence my "grandpup" is coming to live with me. That way I know he will be safe and well. I didn't breed him but he's still my responsibility, the way I see it. His breeder will now have his bitch spayed.

Just one example of how things often do NOT work out the way people wanting to breed think and hope. A wellbred litter from health tested parents, is simply often not enough. Not when you care enough to NOT sell a puppy to anyone who asks, whether a suitable home or not.
- By JeanSW Date 23.10.14 21:40 UTC
I so admire you for taking the little guy, but am not in the least surprised if I'm honest.  I hope it is what we would all do, given this, or similar circumstance.

At least you know he has a perfect home.  And I know you will love him.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.10.14 21:59 UTC
This is why anyone wanting to breed this way needs to do it with full co-operation and help of the bitches breeder and stud dog owner and be sure that they will basically find homes for them.

This is certainly what I have always done.  some people breed just the one litter and decide it is just too much for them, others become more deeply involved and hopefully help fill the void cased by breed stalwarts retiring or dying.

In numerically small breeds like ours it is always worth doing this as you never know who may buy a pup and go on to get involved in the breed, and which dogs may enter the gene pool which needs to be kept as wide as possible as we have too few breeders to keep the breed viable without constant importation that few of us can afford.

Fortunately my breed is one that with not too much effort , as it is very temperamentally suited to being a companion for most average families (as long as you accept a somewhat independent/sometimes wilful nature), being generally sociable, adaptable re exercise needs, despite their hunting/working background.

We generally get more enquiries than puppies available, but on the other hand sometimes it can take more than 8 weeks to match pups and buyers if several litters are born at the same time or a lot of one sex.
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 24.10.14 06:26 UTC
Good for you - and thank goodness the breeder cared enough to come to you and the SDO, and cared enough to look for good homes rather than any old homes. It's going to be hard to get known in your breed though if the serious buyers can't see the breeding behind a new name and all the health testing!
- By Tish [gb] Date 24.10.14 16:42 UTC
He has got off very lightly. Not only has he got you taking on a pup but it sounds like there weren't any complications. I am sure he is way more knowledgeable than most but I would be terrified - It scares me the way people assume it is something dogs just get on with.

Maybe I am just neurotic but I would no more do this than I would rig a drip up and try to spay her.

he is very lucky.
- By Goldmali Date 24.10.14 22:53 UTC
He has got off very lightly. Not only has he got you taking on a pup but it sounds like there weren't any complications.

Well, not quite. I didn't give all details but he mated the bitch twice, and the first time resulted in a c-section and no live pups. The second time resulted in four pups where one died, which was very upsetting, and then not finding buyers -all in all enough for him to realise this isn't something to attempt again.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 24.10.14 22:58 UTC
and new breeders have got to come from somewhere. 

Ideally they come from such people willing to be mentored and helped by the breeder of their bitch and the stud dog owner.

They may well go on to be come the next set of breed custodians.

if they are left to flounder they may well have such a negative experience and never do it again, but it that really good for the breeds???

There are plenty in all breeds who will breed without doing it properly, so anyone doing things right should be helped.

In breeds with small gene pools such breeders even if they are one off may help to provide unrelated potential breeding stock for you or others, assuming they manage to get into a home that will work/show.
- By Tish [gb] Date 25.10.14 07:35 UTC
Very true Brainless - I hadn't even considered that.

Hope it goes well with the puppy today Goldmali
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Breeding a litter from fully health tested PET dogs

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