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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Beyond day 63 & veterinary intervention?
- By Swissdaxi [gb] Date 23.10.14 13:07 UTC
Hello to all,
I posted a while ago to canvass advice on worming my maiden bitch. I received good advice on the subject and I'm wondering if anyone had any further advice on my current situation.

In brief;
Bitch is day 64 from her first tie, day 62 from her second.
As she is a small breed and I am aware that the tendency in smaller breeds is to whelp prior to 63 days, ought I be concerned?
She has been exhibiting much of the behaviour one would expect for stage 1 labour; loss of appetite (she is inordinately greedy and will eat literally anything), excessive nesting followed by periods of sleep, she shan't let me out of her sight, crying, (she is rather vocal usually anyway) restlessness (I attempted to take her for a short walk on a lead around the garden- totally disinterested). She has not been sick nor has she had diarrhoea.  

Mating timeline;
I elected for in-house pre mate as this was far more expedient then waiting for a lab test (I had had a few of these done prior to the final in-house test) and I suspected her being close.
Mon 18.08 - in house pre-mate "ovulation imminent"
Instead of retesting every 24 hours I chose to take her for mating anyway
Wens 20.08 - first tie
Fri 22.08 - second tie

Obviously one cannot be certain in this circumstance of precisely when she ovulated but I am presuming that as she was more than pleased to stand for the stud that she must have been relatively close to her ovulation? So therefore she is as near as damn it to 63 days?

My major concern is that the lady who has the stud dog advised that they are usually under rather than over the 9 weeks, I am also aware that the lady from whom I purchased her originally has never had a bitch go over (even with a small litter).
Before I run off to my vet who seems more than happy to open her up like a can of beans, I just wondered how over others would let theirs go? She has shown no worrying symtoms that I can decipher. She has had a clear mucus present for the last 3 days but my vet informs me this is usual.
I would much prefer to be guided by breeders with vast experience of normal whelping, rather than the vet whose experience seems constrained to problematic whelpings.  In other words and to reiterate; should I be worried? And at what point do I succumb to a section?

Many thanks for your replies in advance, I am at my wits end.  It's not that I don't trust my vet, I just would feel better of the advice were given by someone with experience of what the normal order of proceedings is.

I Apologise for my neurosis!
- By Goldmali Date 23.10.14 13:45 UTC
How long has she been nesting, not eating etc? This is SO breed related I would listen to those experienced in the breed. If it was my main breed I'd not worry at all and by the signs expect pups today or tonight, if it was my second breed I'd KNOW that something was very wrong as I've never had a normal (live) litter born later than day 59 there. In the other breed I've had day 64.
- By Swissdaxi [gb] Date 23.10.14 14:52 UTC
Thanks Goldmali!
She has been slightly off her food since mon, but significantly yesterday & today. She will eat little bits of chicken but only if hand fed. The nesting has been in varying degrees since sun eve; it has become more pronounced since yesterday afternoon.
I had tried a couple of times today to contact the lady with the stud dog but haven't managed to reach her. Obviously I shall continue to try her.
Is there a way perhaps of seeking out someone who has my breed via the forum? I know it's prohibited to openly write the breed, I guess the clue is in my username. She's a miniature smooth.
Thanks very much for your help. On that basis perhaps at the moment I should wait it out for this eve and if no joy nip to the vets first thing.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.10.14 17:37 UTC
An in house premate that shows low levels as in pre ovulation would show that the bitch should be whelping, as progesterone levels fall below the ovulation levels.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2109&aid=3201
"About 48 hours before whelping, the progesterone level drops to the 2 ng/ml range and within about 24 hours of whelping, the level drops to the 1 ng/ml range. This can help determine the proper timing of a c-section, "

This would tell the vet whether they ought to go for a C section.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.10.14 17:42 UTC
The best person to advise would be your bitches breeder and or ones with similar bloodlines as bitch behaviour can be familial.
- By Swissdaxi [gb] Date 27.10.14 01:45 UTC
Thanks for your reply; I did whip her down to the vet as the lady whose dog I used was out. The vet suggested doing a test exactly as you describe on the fri morning with a view to doing a c-section in the afternoon. He even called me later on thurs evening to check on her as he thought it irregular for small breeds to whelp post 9 weeks- especially as we knew their were at least 3 from the 2 scans & x-ray. I was also worried as I knew her mother had whelped 5 days early with her 2 litters & also her full sister with a small litter was a couple of days early.
Irrespective of all of this she did have them herself on Friday morning between 3 & 10 am; not the 3 I expected, but 5! Thank you for your help and advice.
- By Goldmali Date 27.10.14 11:09 UTC
Great news. :)
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 27.10.14 12:02 UTC
Great news - and sounds like a good vet, making the effort to phone and check. :-)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 27.10.14 17:09 UTC
Nice to hear a vet who is up to date with how to confirm if a C section is needed rather than telling people to wait.

Congratulations on the bumper litter.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Beyond day 63 & veterinary intervention?

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