Would you breed from a bitch that is a sociable, friendly girl with family/children and people she knows, but wants nothing to do with strangers and will bark at them in the house and on walks will ignore them unless they talk to her/try to stroke her, and if they do she will give a bark and move away?

Like I say, she is friendly and despite the barking is not aggressive in terms that I am confident she would never follow through with her 'threats'... She just likes the people she knows and doesn't care for strangers. She is sociable with other dogs and is shown with absolutely no problems.

No!  That is a weak character. 

Not suitable for life in a modern environment.

would have been fine out in the wilds somewhere in days gone by, but not suitable/acceptable to be propagated for any modern use.

What does the breed standard call for re temperament?

This is not my dog, but a friends who wants to breed. To be fair to the dog she does settle when she realises that you are not up to anything and within 5 or so minutes of a stranger entering the home she will be bringing them a toy.

Breed standard calls for an alert, biddable and loyal dog.

Boxer standard: distrustful of strangers
Lhasa standard :Aloof with strangers

It is neither of those toolz, there is no mention of character with strangers in the breed standard, however I have not met one that is overly affectionate with strangers out and about, they prefer to keep themselves to themselves, however the others of the breed I have met at home have been more affectionate straight away.
I would prefer not to name the breed as they are a minority breed in this country.

Absolutely not and I base this on having a dog with that kind of temperament.
I met a number if people who had dogs from the same breeder and they were all similar and difficult to deal with regarding strangers when out walking. I moved heaven and earth to avoid this particular breeder and any of the offspring turning up in any other breeders lines and managed to find a dog who treats everyone she meets as a long lost friend (including the postman who she adores).

I have a breed described as "Wary of strangers". I wish they'd remove that from the breed standard -it encourages the wrong temperament. We do see nervous dogs in the breed. My own simple rule is I will NOT breed from a bitch that cannot be shown, i.e. she is okay to be gone over by a judge. I have spayed two bitches for this single reason -otherwise both very nice looking etc, in fact one won an RCC as a youngster before going off strangers. Yet BOTH will happily accept total strangers here at home. It isn't good enough as far as I am concerned, because at home they feel the most secure.

Temperament and health comes first.

Funnily enough this weeks article here covers just such behaviour: http://www.bestinshowdaily.com/blog/treatretreat-a-strategy-for-introducing-your-reactive-dog-to-houseguests/

>I have a breed described as "Wary of strangers". I wish they'd remove that from the breed standard -it encourages the wrong temperament.

Goldmali it is the main reason I changed breeds, (I had a Groenendael in late 80's), due to this 'excuse' used due to the wording of the standard.

My bitch was praised for her good temperament, as she had built such trust in me that she was perfectly sociable able to be shown etc as long as she had my support.  On her own and she fell apart.

Her fearful temperament resulted in her death at only 3  1/2 as she was extremely afraid of certain sounds, fireworks and hot air balloons especially. 

This would make her run and panic and at home attempt to escape over  fences.  On one such occasion she managed to get scale a fence into a neighbours and then again out of their garden onto the street, and was hit a glancing blow by a car and died in my arms before we could reach a vet.  We had thought al fences were dog proofed enough after previous attempts, gate had wire facing in above a 2meter gate, fences were all over 6 feet between neighbours.

That's a very sad story Brainless and I can understand why you changed breeds. Believe me, there are times I wished I had an easier breed! I think it is fair to say though that there aren't many dogs as bad as you describe these days, those that are steady at shows tend to be even better at home, hence my own thoughts about only breeding from bitches that can be shown. With my own, I don't have a single one bothered by gunshots and similar and it is just the "stranger going over the body" scenario that is the problem that keeps popping up -in fact it is the exact same in the showring as at the vet's.

But I do wish they'd remove that bit in the breed standard. It would be better for everyone if we all bred for dogs confident with strangers. It doesn't make them any less suitable for work. Fair enough if there is no INTEREST in strangers (this being a typical one person or one family dog), but it is unnecessary to state wary.

Sounds like 'uninterested in strangers' would be perfectly adequate for your breed standard and as you say wouldn't excuse actual nervousness.

Didn't the early German Shepherd breed standard have the "noted suspicion of strangers" added to it to cover very poor temperaments in the dogs in the 1940s & 1950s. This allowed the breed to become very fearful & unstable in temperament. I remember a local "Alsatian" that was a top show winners & used a lot in breeding that was the most unpredictable dog I have ever met :-( Fortunately the wording was removed & most breeders look for good temperaments in their breeding dogs

I bred from a Bitch that absolutely hated strangers, and would bark and runaway to the farthest point in the garden until they'd gone. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the puppies temperaments, they are all well adjusted, people loving pooches, and very happy little Houndies. Just because the mother doesn't like strangers, doesn't mean the pups will turn out the same.

I wonder how old this bitch is? It might be that she needs more socialisation and is going through a late 'jumpy' phase that can occur around two years. Nonetheless, I would not consider breeding from her while she is exhibiting such a marked dislike of strangers.

I too own a wary breed and the standard is also used as a fig leaf for very undesirable temperament. One example is a big Crufts winner who had been drilled to have a judge go over him (whilst being tightly strung up by handler) but around the benches other competitors were warned not to approach him as he would bite! Go figure. Breed clubs can be wonderful and also negligent to the point of madness.

> Just because the mother doesn't like strangers, doesn't mean the pups will turn out the same.

Can also work the other way. Great temperament bitch producing puppies with nervous tendancies. There are never any guarantees, we can only try to minimize the risk.

I have a young bitch here produced from a friendly mother and happy-go-lucky father but has a nervous nature and is wary of strangers. She has the best hips I've ever produced. I won't breed on from her as I'm not prepared to take the risk of her passing on her nature to her pups.

    > Just because the mother doesn't like strangers, doesn't mean the pups will turn out the same.

Can also work the other way. Great temperament bitch producing puppies with nervous tendancies. There are never any guarantees, we can only try to minimize the risk.

In MY personal experience, with both dogs and cats (two breeds of each), temperament is inherited a LOT, and the genetics count more for how the dog turns out, much more than how much you socialise.  Hence I would not breed from a nervous bitch, to play safe.

Of course, the dog matters a lot as well. For instance I know of a litter where the mother was wonderful -she was regularly loaned to kids to use for junior handling, she'd go with anyone, happily. When she was mated the pups had completely different temperaments to her, and in the words of the breeder "This has set the temperament of the breed back to what it was like decades ago". She'd worked hard to improve temperament, in one fell swoop she got poor temperaments back by using the wrong dog (the dog was abroad). Hence she never bred from any dogs from this litter.

I was told by an experienced breeder that a bad temperament in your lines was one of the most difficult things to breed back out. You may as well stop and start again with fresh blood.

Well said, Pedlee. There is NEVER an excuse for breeding from a nervous bitch or dog.

I think that dogs brought up in packs and kennels are affected by that environment for better or for worse and that puppies are affected by the way they are raised. In all honesty puppies of mine that have gone out to homes at 8 weeks have on the whole had fantastic temperaments whilst the mother I have kept here has her issues some good, some not so good but some of these have been as a result of the rest of the pack showing her position in life and simply having to share.
I have never had a nasty dog live with me but some are fearful of fireworks and others the total opposite. I agree with Tyddhound that it is more to do with their environment than temperament although even I realise this is not always the case.
In my house for example it is a noisy house so some of mine think they have to shout louder. I do not believe they would do that if a single dog.