Dogs: Their Secret Lives - Live (Channel 4 last night)

So what did you think?

The one thing that struck me was they bang on about overweight dogs and then actively encouraged people to use food as rewards!

('their') ...... :)

>use food as rewards!

but the food rewards can be taken from the dogs daily ration.

I can make two ginger nut biscuits go round 6 dogs 6 times. 

Food rewards can be tiny!!!

Food is about the only thing mien would make an effort for, but I still keep them a proper weight especially into old age (wish I could manage it for myself).

As Brainless said - food reward can be tiny.

Most people I know, give rewards that are huge compared to the size of the dog.

It doesn't have to be a whole meal!   Just a tiny taste.

I know people who give a whole sausage as a 'reward'   which is utterly ridiculous !

Mind you at the moment my dogs are nutters, literally. 

They are self rewarding by shelling and eating all the hazel/co nuts from our clump.  The crop isn't huge but they are eating all that is dropping. :)

You get Cob nuts and Filberts.  The type we have ahs a full husk covering the nut.  It's amazing watching them get at the nuts.

"What has a hazelnut in every bite?"

When I was at clicker classes I was always told to make the food as tiny as only possible. So for instance a hot dog, one of these small thin ones from a jar, you would cut into thin slices like coins, and then each slice would be cut into four pieces. That's for a large dog.

Few treat manufacturers seems to understand that not all dogs are giant, and so I have only ever found one shop bought treat small enough to use for Papillons -most are so big they could lay down and chew them for half an hour before it was gone. I want a treat to be gone in a second so that you can give it without having to stop what you are doing, such as if you are practising heelwork. Anything that requires chewing is too big. Now most shop bought treats are really too boring to use anyway, but sometimes you want something quick and dry as opposed to the usual hotdogs, sausages, chicken, ham etc. I would LOVE to see really tiny versions of the Fish 4 Dogs, Mariners Choice etc fish treats. They are the favourites of my Penny who weighs in at 31 kilos (lean but very tall) -she will not eat sausages. It takes her 3 or 4 chews to eat one fish treat, they are that big.

That is why I buy the smacko type (shop own brand) treats if I use commercial, as you can pinch off tiny bits

I always use these when claw trimming as my OH can feed these almost non stop while I am doing the 'deed' :) :) and they are tiny !

Little Liver Treats

Opps .. THEIR!!! :)

>I was always told to make the food as tiny as only possible

And that is the point. At no time during that programme was it stated that only tiny treats should be used and more importantly- sparingly.

In the puppy training class (in the background) you could see one puppy owner feeding treats into her dog like it was a slot machine! She wasn't paying attention to what she was doing but watching the others. I have nothing against food rewards but I can see why problems arise when techniques are not explained properly and how, if it is not explained, could cause problems later.

One thing I liked about our old training class was that food as a treat (during the class) was discouraged. A few people did use it, but most dogs were fine with a favourite toy and Tara might have 'guarded' her treats if another dog was in close proximity. Although I appreciate that not all dogs are the same, it is perfectly possible to train some dogs without using treats or only for specific issues :)

How to Teach Animals

B D Skinner 1951
          |
The second thing you will need is something your subject wants, say food. This serves as a
reward or--to use a term which is less likely to be misunderstood--a "reinforcement" for the
desired behavior. Many things besides food are reinforcing--for example, simply letting the dog
out for a run--but food is usually the easiest to administer in the kind of experiment to be
described here. If you use food, you must of course perform the experiment when the dog is
hungry, perhaps just before his dinnertime.
For a conditioned reinforcer you need a clear signal which can be given instantly and to
which the subject is sure to respond. It may be a noise or a flash of light. A whistle is not
recommended because of the time it takes to draw a breath before blowing it. A visual signal like a
wave of the arm may not always be seen by the animal. A convenient signal is a rap on a table with a
small hard object or the noise of a high-pitched device such as a *"cricket."

*Clickers used be called 'crickets' in the 1950's, they were a common, tin, 'fidget' toy, every kid had a few.
.

I thought it was a bit thin with too much darting about from one thing to another. It was annoying that the training methods for the the three 'problem' dogs were not revealed in any detail. Am I alone in finding Mark Evans underwhelming as a presenter. He always looks so depressed.

Am I alone in finding Mark Evans underwhelming as a presenter. He always looks so depressed

Oh well, you could always switch to youtube for a nice, natural, smiley eksplurt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC3HjW91U_c&list=PL3B73E2767DC19590
.

I agree that dogs need so me sort of reward it doesn't have to be food its whatever motivates the dog. My happen to work best for food but again tiny bits and it certainly doesn't make any difference to their weight, I agree it would if helped to point all this out .
I wasn't overly impressed woth last nights offering a sort of less than exciting end to a good series. 

I thought it was funny that the bag of treats for the tiniest puppy there was as big as the puppy. It could hardly eat one treat it was so big.

>Oh well, you could always switch to youtube for a nice, natural, smiley eksplurt...

Just watched it.  I got fed up of watching the forced smile throughout.  She looked as if her face ached by the end of her talk.

Am I alone in finding Mark Evans underwhelming as a presenter. He always looks so depressed.

It must be a depressing life to believe that dog shows are parades of mutants -I know it would depress me a lot! :)

>Just watched it.  I got fed up of watching the forced smile throughout.  She looked as if her face ached by the end of her talk.

her name seems remarkably apt. Caroline MenTEETH!

her name seems remarkably apt. Caroline MenTEETH!

Shes upped her game since that was made, maybe married that RSPCA TV star by the sound of it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi7OhktrvWU
.

talking about food treats have just bought a bag of ziwipeak cat food the dehydrated one only to discover it makes brilliant training treats for dogs . can be broken easily into small pieces and should sit nicely in the pocket without too much mess, also smells :).
anyway the cats didn't like it lol

I am well known at my training club for feeding the smallest treats ever. I often use the value cocktail sausages that are already cooked. One tiny sausage makes  20 or more treats for my dogs - and one of my dogs is a Golden Retriever. I was shocked by a new member who treated her dog with a whole handful of sausages - must have been 6 or 7. She in turn was shocked at the size of the treats I feed but could also see the huge difference in size between her rather portly BC and my lean and slender GR - only 8lb difference in body weight with my dog standing at least 8" taller than her dog.

Harley's jackpot reward is four tiny pieces fed rapidly one after the other.

Yes, it really has to be explained that treat is a marker and if pup is overly focussed on munching and crunching on a large piece of food he is unlikely to form a clear association between action and also accurate/ vital pairing with vocal praise is unlikely. A very smelly down in one treat is best and olfactory reward is a major part of that.

I like to vary and randomise reward asap- though much depends on what pup finds rewarding and timing of owner.

Used to go to a class which included someone with a small GSD youngster, She was using the Standard size Marko (sausage roll thing) as treats and feeding about 15 in a 30/40 min class
I use Aplaws small dog for Zuma - 41kg GSD