Hi guys, my name is Luke and we have a wonderful French Bulldog Called Cookie, we are starting our research on possibly breeding her. She has just got her bronze health certificate and we will be moving onto silver and most likely gold before we make a decision. We recently attended a French bulldog meet in London which was amazing and a real eye opener. There were over 150 french bulldogs there and cookie was if not the most athletic dog there. We have by no means made any decisions yet and have lots of research to do.

One of my first questions to the group is that we have found a really nice stud dog health checked up to gold. May go and see him over the coming months.  He is an imported dog from Hungary. We were warned off getting imported puppies when we looked for ours due to possible health and temp issue. He has several champs in his lines all non uk, logic says as he is a sound health tested dog there should be no problems, but would an imported dog still be a negative in any circles of thought amongst french bulldogs?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.

Sorry, no experience at all, apart from living next door to Frenchies for years, but just thought I'd add this French Bulldog Club of England health scheme link for others like me who haven't heard of it and had to Google. What a great scheme on first look!

Sounds really good :D

No worries, good link to a great scheme.

My next question would be how well does she meet the breed standard for a French bulldog in conformation and temperament.

it's great that she is healthy, but so could, a mongrel be, that would not be reason enough to breed from her.

Are you actively showing her and is the potential stud being shown so they are evaluated against the breed standard.

Standard wise she is a good type only a short tail and small nostrils were picked up by several show circuits at the meet we went to. So picking a make without these traits was advised. I would like her to keep close to the standard but to be honest it is a second thought to us, her health, athleticism and temp are more important. We met several French bulldogs who had won lots of different titles in the show ring at the meet and they were half the athlete she was, but still lovely dogs. We will not be showing her, as I swing slightly towards agreeing with a functional health, and fitness type of competition over the show ring. Saying that I fully understand you need a standard to work towards to keep her a french bulldog.

Could I butt in and ask a question? You talk about athleticism so if I was to say my neighbours 6 month old French just lies around all day on the settee and has no interest of running around let alone chase a ball there must be something wrong?

Lki: no in my humble opinion I wouldn't say there was anything wrong with a more laid back frenchie. It's horses for courses. You could have french bulldog lines which are very atheistic and even have high prey drives, but other people may breed lines which suit a more laid back low energy lifestyle. Neither is better just different. The main thing is that the dogs are healthy and can move freely without breathing or structural problems. As the French bulldog has only recently been taken off the Red list for breeds it would seem that breeding to tightly towards a standard or unhealthy blue print is what ruins breeds. Hence I do not vest a high amount if interest in the show ring. I think it has it's place but for my preference give me a competition like agility or Sch to breed traits into a breed that keep it healthy and as free from health issues as possible. If you were more interested in a pet low energy dog, then just make sure they are healthy free from genetic, structural, health and temp problems.

There is nothing in the breed standard that actively encourages 'unhealthy', though we sahoudl bear in mind this is a companion breed so certainly characteristics like high prey drive, or accentuated guradign traits would not be appropriate.

General Appearance
Sturdy, compact , solid, small dog with good bone, short, smooth coat. No point exaggerated, balance essential. Dogs showing respiratory distress highly undesirable.

Characteristics
Full of courage, yet with clown-like qualities. Bat ears and short tail characteristic features of the breed.

Temperament
Vivacious, deeply affectionate, intelligent. .................

Hindquarters
Legs strong, muscular and relatively longer than forelegs with moderate angulation. Absolute soundness essential. Hocks well let down.................

Gait/Movement
Free and flowing. Soundness of movement of the utmost importance



I'd say that over emphasis on some of the more extreme characteristics, primarily in the head have caused issues and to some extent the short tail characteristic unwittingly with Hemivertibrae.

I agree with you in a way brainless, however I think we can all agree that the show ring has done a lot if harm to some breeds, but I would like to think people are more aware of this and an improvement should start to appear. Some people will want a docile low energy bulldog, while others are excelling in dog agility with them. I think there health has to be the highest priority. I also understand your references to the importance of keeping to a breed standard. This however should never be blindly followed. Personally I would much rather buy a healthy sound athletic french bulldog that may have slightly big ears or a shorter tail than detailed in a standard.
But as I have stated I am far from decided in breeding, I am researching and conversations like this are all part of that.
What are your thoughts to my proposed question on imports?

As I have a numerically small breed of foreign origin we have to use imports regularly.

the maihn issue is ease of research fo the liens.

Now if your looking at Scanidnavia and Finland in particular their open database is very helpful as you can find out so much about dogs, the breeds etc.  Enter a dogs name and you an find it's show results, health test results litters, the breeds health test results for any year etc.

The computer age has made it much easier to get to know overseas breeders and exhibitors establish contacts and make friends and be able to exchange ideas and bloodlines.

I am actually bilingual from Polish parents and visit regularly. 

I would be wary of importing blind from any Eastern European country where the whole pedigree scene is fairly new and so many people with few options to improve their standard of living will turn to anything  that can give an income, lots of entrepreneurs, and attitudes less sentimental to animals mean a huge puppy farming scene.

I'd only deal with people involved in Kennel club activities, with some reputation to protect.  I'd take a lot with a pinch of salt as you can get anything for a back hander, that sort of petty corruption is seen as the norm.  for example any health testing that is done by an individual vet.

>I'd take a lot with a pinch of salt as you can get anything for a back hander, that sort of petty corruption is seen as the norm.  for example any health testing that is done by an individual vet.

Even pet passports are very often fabricated despite being signed by a vet. I've seen examples myself where although the microchip tallies the dates of supposed vaccination are clearly impossible.

Very interesting, do you think it would be harder to fake a gold on the scheme though??

If I might just add my two-bits here - can you find a reputable breeder (listed here perhaps?) and take her for an experienced assessment of her quality?   I appreciate your reluctance re the show scene these days, but it is still a yardstick and provided you get an honest judge, one with years of experience in the breed, showing, or talking to show people, shouldn't be totally ruled out.   

For me, only top quality animals should ever be included in a breeding programme, and fact is no bitch NEEDS motherhood.   If only because when a bitch is put in whelp, her life is put at risk - with the best of intentions, things can go wrong.

All potential brood bitches should be 'healthy', but unless a vet has first-hand knowledge of the breed, he can only say whether your bitch is healthy, not whether she's carrying a significant fault (they all have faults, but the degree of fault matters).

>.. do you think it would be harder to fake a gold on the scheme though?

Unless the dogs are microchipped and/or tattooed,  and those numbers listed on the Health Certificate,  along with the KC registration, then I can see it would be possible to substitute another dog for testing.

However,  the Health Scheme testing doesn't tell the whole story,   it doesn't tell you about the health or temperament of the dog's ancestors.

Regarding not wanting to show your bitch,  I can't really see why not.   If,  as you say,  you want to stay close to the breed standard,  then first you need to find out how closely your bitch meets the standard and what faults she has.   It would also be useful for you to see her in a line up of bitches.   By attending shows,  you would be better able to recognise the various good points and faults of your own dog and those of others.   Very useful when it comes to assessing a potential stud dog.

You would also be in a better position to assess the temperament of any dogs which catch your eye.  

Meeting other breeders is a great way of learning to understand the breed,  and a great way of building relationships within the breed that can be of enormous help when it comes to breeding and homing pups.

At any time,  there are 6 pages at least,  of Frenchie pups and their crosses on just one well known dog selling website,   so really it's important to do as much as possible to breed the most typical (and yes,  healthy)  pups.   Surely that's the least a puppy buyer should expect,  especially given the amazingly high price of pups in this breed ?

Firstly, what colour is she and the colour of stud that you like? Many Hungarian imports are the unrecognised and highly undesirable dilute colours blue chocolate etc. or being tan / sable as well. So I prefer to steer clear from imports. I have never bred frenchies but own 3 and have for 4 years. A few things that you have said concern me. Meet up groups are not necessarily the best place to find correct information, I went along to a few pug ones and it was an avenue to sell puppies and other pug pet owners chat about things that often were so far from the truth it was hard to believe. I stopped going to them for these reasons. You say she is athletic which isn't the issue. But is she a good example of the breed. Type is very important and if she is more whippet like this is not type. I have shown all of my frenchies and my youngest has done the best qualifying for crufts and several groups and a RBPIS. You can send me a few pictures and I can assess her quality, I am by no means an expert but I know a good dog. Lkj your friends frenchie, may not possibly be the norm. All mine love a good run in the fields and game of fetch, not couch potato at all. But they do love a good snuggle in the evening. I have also taken part in bronze and silver testing done bva eyes heart and boas just X-rays for Hemivertabrae to do. A dog of good health and proven good type is what you should be after and breeding to anything but the standard is not good practice. Health type and temper.