Who or what is classed as a commercial breeder? Does it depend upon the number of litters per year? Would 3 litters in a 10 month period be classed as a commercial breeder and therefore need a license?

Essentially it is up to your local council. The national rule is if you breed more than 4 litters a year, but different councils have different rules. My own council says you have to have a license if you have more than two bitches "kept for the purpose of producing puppies to sell". I queried this with them and explained my own situation and they said that as I am clearly a hobby breeder (can easily prove all my show entries etc -25 shows this year alone-, always breed to keep a pup for myself, just have to sell the surplus, have never had more than one litter in a  year and would never have more than two) -then I can have more than two bitches and still not need a license.

Anyone  breeding five or more litters a year is required to be licensed. 

Also anyone breeding as a business.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/11

Definition of establishments.
.
Before section 5 of the 1973 Act insert--

"4A

Breeding establishments for dogs.
.

(1)

References in this Act to the keeping of a breeding establishment for dogs shall be construed in accordance with this section.
.

(2)

A person keeps a breeding establishment for dogs at any premises if he carries on at those premises a business of breeding dogs for sale (whether by him or any other person).
.

(3)

Subject to subsection (5) of this section, where--
.

(a)

a person keeps a bitch at any premises at any time during any period of twelve months; and
.

(b)

the bitch gives birth to a litter of puppies at any time during that period,
.
he shall be treated as carrying on a business of breeding dogs for sale at the premises throughout the period if a total of four or more other litters is born during the period to bitches falling within subsection (4) of this section.

(4)

The bitches falling within this subsection are--
.

(a)

the bitch mentioned in subsection (3)(a) and (b) of this section and any other bitches kept by the person at the premises at any time during the period;
.

(b)

any bitches kept by any relative of his at the premises at any such time;
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(c)

any bitches kept by him elsewhere at any such time; and
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(d)

any bitches kept (anywhere) by any person at any such time under a breeding arrangement made with him.
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(5)

Subsection (3) of this section does not apply if the person shows that none of the puppies born to bitches falling within paragraph (a), (b) or (d) of subsection (4) of this section was in fact sold during the period (whether by him or any other person).
.

(6)

In subsection (4) of this section "breeding arrangement" means a contract or other arrangement under which the person agrees that another person may keep a bitch of his on terms that, should the bitch give birth, the other person is to provide him with either--
.

(a)

one or more of the puppies; or
.

(b)

the whole or part of the proceeds of selling any of them;
.
and "relative" means the person's parent or grandparent, child or grandchild, sibling, aunt or uncle or niece or nephew or someone with whom he lives as a couple.

(7)

In this section "premises" includes a private dwelling.

Thanks Goldmali and Brainless for your replies.

I realise that my post was rather short and vague but am trying to assist a retired neighbour who lives alone with a problem that she has with a breeder of a puppy that she bought 8 months ago.

Short version is, that I moved to my present home last January. I arrived with my current girl (aged nearly two) and a couple of weeks later, brought home my new puppy (same breed) now 10 months. Small/toy breed, white fluffy, happy little dogs.

Apparently, the neighbour had been watching my two in the garden and commented to her daughter that she would love a dog same as mine. She had been wanting a small dog for some time but couldn't decide upon a breed. She asked what breed they were and a month later, she appears in the garden with a puppy.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago and my neighbour is no longer able to keep the puppy owing to unexpected critical illness.

She quite rightly approached the breeder and requested that he accept the puppy back. The breeder has told her to take a running jump and to contact the relevant breed rescue for help ( which she has). The breed rescue state that this is not the first time that they have had dealings with this particular breeder - which says a lot. The breed rescue will help her in any event.

The breeder apparently has a new litter of puppies (just checked out his advert). He also has four/five bitches and one male dog. Just checked out his website. He is also advertising them through the Kennel Club.

When she got the puppy, the breeder had two litters of puppies to choose from(four in one and seven in the other). This was last February. His latest litter has eight puppies.

Going back to my original question: reading the sales ad for this litter he states'  We at 'KENNEL NAME' are one of the longest established xxxxxx breeders in the UK, with over 12 years experience as owners since our first xxxxx who is now in their 13th year, born when there were less than 30 xxxxx in the UK.

We have over 10 years experience as breeders etc. - goes on to state some details regarding bloodlines and Crufts winners.

Then goes on to state:We are retired and only breed about one litter a year. WE ARE NOT COMMERCIAL BREEDERS- hence the low asking price of £1200.

Assuming that he sold this year alone the 19 puppies @ £1200 each = £22800. Does this not make him a commercial breeder?

I would like to bet that he does not have a license, but further more, I doubt with his attitude if he is declaring his puppy sales.

I have suggested that she contact the relevant Licensing Authority and probably inform HMRC - or am I just being a bit bitter upon her behalf?

>He is also advertising them through the Kennel Club.

The kennel Club now require that anyone registering more than 4 litters in a year has to show them proof of holding a council Breeding License.

Also they don't allow 'Commercial breeders' to advertise in their find a puppy service unless they happen to be 'Assured Breeders'

>Assuming that he sold this year alone the 19 puppies @ £1200 each = £22800. Does this not make him a commercial breeder?

That's Gross sales, not profits.

Depends on their expenses.  If they campaign their dogs heavily, and also travel for studs, import etc their expenses may be considerable.  The number od dogs they maintain at home will also add considerably to costs.  Then there is upkeep of facilities etc.

He isn't an Assured Breeder, Brainless. You don't actually need to be an AB to advertise via the KC.

I also realise that all is not profit out of puppy sales.

I think the main issues are that he is claiming to only breed one litter a year (and he is NOT a Commercial Breeder) and this year he has bred 3 litters, but mainly, he is not at all interested in taking back the puppy or helping to re-home it other than refer her to the breed rescue. I forgot to mention, that apparently, his first reaction was to tell her to sell it on a well known site. He doesn't seem to accept any responsibility, or show any concern for this young puppy.

The only doc's she got was a cash receipt and the KC papers do not have him down as the breeder and the puppy's registered name does not contain the Kennel Name that he was using to advertise this particular puppy - same name that he is now advertising the current litter. I find it rather confusing to say the least.

>He isn't an Assured Breeder, Brainless. You don't actually need to be an AB to advertise via the KC.

What I was saying was that only those commercial breeders who are ABS can advertise on their find a Puppy site. 

So if they are advertising they must be under the number of litters that require a License, as the KC now require to see it.

Sounds like he is buying in pups, unless it's a stud fee puppy of course, or he has bitches out on breeding terms, the latter which do count towards the number of litters bred under the act, but would be hard for the KC to spot..

As for not taking responsibility, sadly there is only an ethical requirement to do so, not a legal one :(

If he's a member of a breed club then of course he could be reported to them if they have rules or a code of ethics requiring this.

I have recently been asking my local council regarding this as having had a run of singletons we may well find ourselves needing a licence although this is very unusual and mostly have 2 or at the most 3 litters between us in a year. They told me the rules change in Wales as from Jan next year and we will need a licence for 3 litters. In my case that would have been 5 pups or 4 pups depending on which part of the rolling year you took. Hardly my idea of a commercial kennel but there you are. They sent out the paperwork for me to see and there are now 2 lots of rules and regs. One lot is titled "licence conditions and guidance for dog breeders" and is everything I have seen before and seems to be geared for large establishments and large stone built kennel blocks where dogs live all the time. Heavy on the construction of the kennels, lighting, heating etc and the size of the quarters and whelping areas etc.
The other new booklet that I have never seen before is called "licence conditions and guidance for home dog breeders"  THAT's the new lot of regs. Now I thought that sounded more like me as, like you, I have dogs in the house, all whelping and puppy rearing is indoors and my dogs aren't in kennels 24/7 BUT the very first clause says ALL dogs must live, sleep and whelp within the domestic premises.....i.e the house. If any kennels are used that does not apply. Like many people I have some in and some out (we rotate) but have several dogs and it wouldn't even be sensible to have everything living in at one time as we have our own stud dogs and if a bitch was in season it would be foolish to the extreme. So I cannot be classed as a "home dog breeder" yet I could have 30 toy dogs living in "crate city" (sorry if I offend anyone) and it would be fine. Virtually everyone I know who shows and breeds somewhat regularly have kennels and runs and some dogs indoors so I will be very interested how I am classed.
I have seen NO publicity on this.....has anyone else?
I have been part of the consultation process throughout and was under the impression we were to hear the final outcome in April but nothing ever happened, neither have I seen it in either dog paper.
Does anyone else live in Wales who will be effected by this?
I have  huge concerns as although I'm happy to be inspected and if we need a licence so be it I will pay whatever I must but I hardly think of myself as commercial and before long I will be yet another licensed kennel in Wales just like those people with 70 and 100 breeding bitches won't I!!!!!
Will I still be allowed to worm as I do (D.e) and I don't give annual boosters either. I would appreciate hearing from anyone else who is effected and especially anyone who now has been inspected and licensed.

I also had have not heard anything about this summer, shocking that they haven't advertised the people living here in wales about it!
Allthough im sure it will effect many good breeders it will at least catch out those breeding 3 litters a year to make money with out needing a lience, I know of once such person so if this does come in she will hopefully get caught out.

I live in Wales and hadn't heard it either -  not a peep  

Not that it affects me,  as I don't have any plans to breed for the forseeable future,  my remaining entire bitch is older than I'd want to breed from,  and I don't particularly want another pup just now.

I know really good,  responsible breeders this will affect,  who may only have a litter every other year, but have both sexes and use a kennel when a bitch is in season (only time the dogs would fight)

On the other hand I know several BYBs who will need licenses owing to their breeding more than 3 litters a year and dogs living in kennels/sheds all year round

Yet again,  it's penalising the good for the actions of the bad.    And no doubt the good breeders will comply,  whilst the bad ones will  not bother  

And this does nothing about those with a pet shop license who buy in whole litters,  keep them in the garage,  and sell to anyone with cash  

Actually, thinking about it,   I  doubt it will change much.

The state most welsh councils are in,  I doubt they'll have any means of enforcing the new regs.   Have they ever enforced the present regs?

They are cutting services left,  right and centre now,  and it's not going to improve any time soon.   I've a feeling that,  yet again,  this is more to be seen to be doing something, than anything else ;-)

as I've said over and over like a stuck record having a license won't make a jot of difference. Look at the commercial breeders in Wales with 70 or even 100 breeding bitches in many breeds. Most of us would term such people "puppy farmers" would we not? They all have licenses! The only way to stop it is to make it illegal to sell to a third party be it pet shop or dealer it really is as simple as that. Doesn't sound like rocket science to me. All of these people sell directly to the dealers who come around in vans and take the pups. They often have their first vaccinations so adding a microchip to that can easily be done.....THAT won't help.What these people are not interested in is having people around. Like we do maybe 2 or 3 times and letting THEM see what they do and offering any after care. They would do and may well find it hard to get homes for 70 litters of pups (with no papers) too through adverts and having people around their homes.
There are numerous litters born outside of the kennel club especially in rural areas (not just Wales) Always has been. A sort of income for a farmers wife. THEY are not regulated by anyone. Much as the big commercial set ups seem abhorrent to us all on all sorts of moral grounds they are clean, the dogs are fed (maybe not as we do) all dogs are well (the old, infirm and ones who have caesareans are soon shot off to the oh- to- willing- to- have them "rescues" around here and sold on.....oh sorry I mean a £160 "donation!") to be honest how can the council inspectors fail them? Looking at the basic welfare guidance they tick all the boxes don't they, heating light size per animal etc. Socialisation and "being a dog" never comes into it.
I stand a far bigger chance of failing than them.
They all do annual boosters as there is a well known vets practice who gives it by the bottle for them to do it themselves
I don't as I don't believe it's necessary......will that fail me
I worm with D.E.....................................they will hate that.
My dogs run out in all weathers................what will they make of muddy dogs?
I whelp and rear pups in the house..........they will never have seen that.
The list goes on, I don't feed the same I groom instead of clipping everything off, I have no single dogs standing alone in kennels. I have old dogs and I don't have a converted cattle shed!
Should be interesting shouldn't it!