Hi, I have recently taken on 2 orphaned pups as they had no where else to go. Their mother died when they were about 3 days old, the other 7 pups in the litter died between then and Tuesday evening when these 2 were brought to me. We were told that they were 2 weeks but my vet thinks they were no more than 9 days then (so 12 days now)

I have had lots of conflicting advice on what to feed them (I am in Kazakhstan and don't have access to puppy formula) any advice on that would be great!! Also they both have very watery poo - the little girl had it when she came but got better, now its back. The little boy only pooed for the first time today - a solid bung followed by soft (normal?) poo but now he is very watery as well.

I have a hundred other questions but the most important one is that the little girl started panting this evening as if she is too hot (it's 40 degrees here so I guess it's possible) I gave her some boiled water and tried to cool her down. Is it possible that she is just too hot?

Since they arrived on Tuesday evening they have become much livelier and are feeding well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

At a pinch you can used goats milk with an egg yolk added, 2 Vit drops per litre.

Puppies of that age cannot control their body temperature well...they are over heating

No goats milk available unfortunately. Long life cows milk, horses milk or camel milk are all I can get. The animal rescue guys brought them with a tin of baby formula, some long life milk (6% fat) a tub of some kind of cottage cheese and some vitamins... the vet advised cows milk (1% fat) but I thought cows milk was no good for them? I tried a formula I found on the internet (cup of milk, 3 egg yolks, pinch of salt, a little oil and vitamins) but the vet was adamant they couldn't have egg yolk! See my confusion?

Thanks for the advice re temperature - I have managed to cool the room down a bit and she seems more settled.

Is there anything that you can order over the internet? I don't know what delivery is like to your country.

Your vet is unlikely to be a breeder or nutritionist s I'd go with the Egg yolk and milk formula.

He is wrong trying to get you to feed a low fat milk as bitch milk is higher in fat than Cows.
bitch milk http://jn.nutrition.org/content/114/5/803.full.pdf

I understand Camels milk is very rich so I would google a comparison of bitch milk compared to the milks you can get.

Three yolks to a CUP of milk would be too much, ONE perhaps.

I read you could add mayonnaise to the milk at a pinch ( egg/oil emulsion of course)

OK found this by a well respected practitioner in the US.


Puppy Formula Recipe from Myra Harris

Can be used at any age from premature newborn to elderly adult. Best formula for your puppies and well worth the extra time it takes to prepare it

Boil one large piece of liver in one cup of water. Strain the liquid and put aside. Discard liver or feed to mom. (You can substitute another type of beef of any kind (not fatty ground beef) but liver is best. You are after the amino acids in the beef.)
10 oz can of condensed goat's milk (if necessary you can sub with evaporated, condensed cow's milk but do not dilute either goats or cows) You can find this where you get other canned milk.

1/3 cup of strained liver water (you can substitute with freshly made beef broth)

2 raw egg yolks

1 T mayonnaise or canola oil, your choice

1 cup whole fat yogurt, best quality and freshest possible

1 tsp Karo syrup (either light or dark) Sugar syrup or golden syrup is the same

1 dropper of baby vitamins (any drug store)

This can be used as is for tube feeding or bottle feeding and can be used from birth (including VERY premature puppies) to old age on any dog. You can start them on this formula from birth and you don't need to dilute it.This can be used as is for tube feeding or bottle feeding and can be used from birth (including VERY premature puppies) to old age on any dog. You can start them on this formula from birth and you don't need to dilute it.

It contains 10-12 calories per cc

Freeze in ice cube trays and the cubes can be stored in a plastic freezer bag for six months. When you are ready for a feeding, simply thaw the cubes as needed. This formula will prevent the formation of juvenile cataracts that were associated with homemade formulas because of the addition of the beef juice which contains the important amino acid, Taurine.. It prevents diarrhea because of the yogurt and prevents constipation because of the Karo. It will stay fresh refrigerated for 7 days, and can be kept frozen for six months. Remember that you are after the calories, so choose the highest fat content that you can and don't dilute the canned milk. You will love it. Puppies thrive on it, and will grow as quickly as litter mates.
.

Or this one

1 cup full fat evaporated milk, 1 cup plain yogurt (full fat or low fat), 1 egg yolk (no whites), 2 tablesppoons Mayonaise, 1/4 cup water. Feed 1ml per oz of puppy, every 4 hours, if it's the only source of feeding

This is probably more helpful than the scientific paper: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rootk001/peds_feeding%20orphans.htm

EMERGENCY HOME-MADE MILK REPLACERS FOR PUPPIES
1) 3 parts evaporated milk (not skimmed) to 1 part water
2) 1 cup (240 ml) whole milk, 1 tsp (5 ml) vegetable oil, 1 drop liquid infant vitamins
3) 1/2 cup (120 ml) whole milk, 1/2 cup (120 ml) water, 1-2 egg yolks, 2 Tums (calcium supplement), 1 tsp (5 ml) vegetable oil  
4) 1 cup (240 ml) whole milk, 1 T (15 ml) vegetable oil, pinch salt, 3 egg yolks, 1 drop liquid infant vitamins

Thank you so much for all the replies. I will get myself down to the shop and see what ingredients I can get. Do you think it is the cows milk causing the diarrhea? This is worrying me as it's very watery.

I would think so but if you have no alternative ?

Cows milk - NO!  And yes, this won't be helping with the diarrhoea.  Ideally would have been goats milk because it's closest in make-up to bitch milk.  Evap. as suggested, is where I'd go as an alternative too ..... it is possible to keep newborn puppies going with a mix of glucose and water, but clearly this isn't enough long-term.

Good luck with rearing these two because hand-rearing is not always successful at best.   Are you SURE you can't get hold of bitch replacer milk - what do other breeders do out there?

This is a country were anything worth having is imported... animals included, so not many breeders here. Normally these pups would be left to take their chances with whatever was to hand (hence 7 dead already) I have swapped to evaporated milk (3 parts milk to 1 part water) as advised in a previous post so fingers crossed this will help. I will try to find some cows liver at the market tomorrow to make the mega mix! Does anyone know if there is a substitute for kako (listed in the ingredients) or can I leave it out? I am guessing it's American so will see if any ex pats here have some.

Doesn't look like there is any chance of replacer milk - I have posted on our local ex pat site to see if someone can bring some from the UK but no reply so looks like we are stuck with whatever we can get locally.

What about the baby formula? I didn't think it was much use, but I could be wrong??

Karo is corn syrup, definitely American, as I have not seen it in UK. 

Golden syrup would do the same it's added to prevent constipation.

the main issue with cows Milk is the lactose, as dogs do not digest it .

Linda I have some whelpi  you can have but I live in the uk if you would like it please pm me and I will send it to you

minnie mouse thank you! But it would take ages to get here unless I can find someone flying over soon. I am trying to find someone at the moment. I have changed them to the evap and water but little girl is refusing to eat and little boy is throwing up everything he has :-( Did I see somewhere that electrolyte powder can be used? I think we have some diarrolyte in the cupboard. Could that help? Panicking now!!

I always use evaporated milk 3:1 with boiled water. Hand reared a litter of 11 on this with no problems, no constipation.
Hope you get the little ones settled, to help get them sucking on a bottle a but of honey on the teat can help
Good luck

Little girl is much better - she is sucking and poo is now like thick soup (I assume this is normal puppy poo??) Trying to limit her to 25ml per feed (she is just over 500g - is this about right?) she is a piglet and will happily take 50/75ml but am worried about overfeeding. Little boy has been up all night crying :-( he has had a few very solid little poos - I guess he is constipated? Anything we can do to help him?? He is refusing to suck and we can only get anything down him with a syringe :-(

Give the little boy a little bit of boiled, cooled water to help his gut.

trying to do that - using a syringe as he wont suck. He has been crying for about 12 hours now!! Heartbreaking :-(

Just a thought, but are you stimulating them to pee and poo ?.
Obviously they are pooing, but they may need help with urinating too.
Apologies if your already doing it, but thought it was worth mentioning :).

Yes I started off doing it but they are both peeing by themselves now. Little boy is in so much pain now he is screaming :-( going to the chemist to see if they have infacol - would gripe water work?

Just got back from the vets, little boy has distemper :-( they are both on a 10 day course of B vitamins but doesn't look good for him :-(

Oh heck, really hope they get through this bad patch.. Poor wee mites but so want to hug you to say well done doing what you are doing and with what you have available to you out there x

Thanks suejaw