I have just had the KC email with advice how to buy a pup and the need to avoid puppy farms. A good idea but why dont the KC just stop registering puppys from puppy farms. then all that needs to be said is only buy KC registered puppies. Or is that just too easy?

Too easy.  I very much doubt that the large scale registered an unregistered puppy farms actually bother with kennel club registration.  they us one of a number of other pseudo registries that have sprung up.

So the Kennel club will have larger scale producers who may register with several different people, quite legally hold a lice3nse for breeding over 5 litters a year, or fewer but be conswidr3ed by their council as commercial.

the largest breeder the kennel club register from is the Guide Dogs for the Blind, so they could not say decide that no-one could register more than x nu8mber of litters as those who wish to use the KKC would find a way around it, but registering them to relatives the window cleaner etc.

the Kennel club do at least require to see the council License from anyone who breeds roe than 4 litters a year.

the buck really does stop with the people on the ground the Local authorities and their ability and willingness to enforce legislation.

If the laws were enforced then much of the cruelty aspect could be removed, they'd still be commercially bred and, mothers discarded when too old to pump out the maximum of 6 litters allowed (we suspect they have more but how would you prove it).

The biggest change that would really help would be for third party selling of puppies (other than the stud dog owner) was illegal.  If only the breeder could sell puppies under 16 weeks (the cute stage), every buyer would see exactly where they came from.  it would make it much less profitable for the producer having to sell each pup individually, and of course their activities much more visible.  You would hope at least some of the buying Public would report bad conditions, but more importantly would refuse to buy from such places.

If there was less profit in it they would soon stop doing it.

No point enacting more laws, especially those which would impact on small scale hobby folk who don't breed in a lifetime in dogs what some of these puppy farmers breed in a year.

Also bear in mind that these days many puppy farms do designer crossbreeds, so they couldn't be KC registered anyway. Certainly for the local puppy  farms I have only ever seen mentions of the Mickey Mouse registry, never the KC. It is so much easier for them to NOT KC reg and Joe Public cannot tell the difference between real KC registration and "registration" with the other registries -especially as they make sure to print on pretty paper etc.

the Kennel club do at least require to see the council License from anyone who breeds roe than 4 litters a year. I'd dispute that. Last year some puppy farmers had their premises raided and the dogs and puppies seized. They'd regularly been registering, on average, 8 Labrador litters a quarter yet the council had refused to renew their licence because of the conditions. That had been going on for at least 18 months and the KC still registered the litters.

Some very big names in the show world are fairly large producers of puppies, it's their business.

Other than in mass cattle shed type operations, it's not always so clear cut as to who is the 'farmer' in the dog world.
Both types are licensed and therefore inspected so the KC would have to say that because the litters are by show dogs they are more worthy...a legal minefield.

If you set yourself up as having the monopoly to the "Gold Standard"...ie KC Registration... you need to be very careful who you exclude from using this financial enhancer.

If you set yourself up as having the monopoly to the "Gold Standard"...ie KC Registration... you need to be very careful who you exclude from using this financial enhancer.

I still wish they'd follow the Swedish way of doing things. NO puppies to be registered unless parents have acceptable health test results. Much higher registration fees if the parents do not have show or working results of a minimum grade. Some breeds to be character tested. The big news in Sweden not long ago was the Swedish KC starting to refuse to register pups bred by the organisation that supplies ALL guide dogs and police dogs in Sweden. They refused to have their dogs go through the new style character assessment and so the SKK said sorry, we will no longer register your puppies!

Marianne, the English 'Old Boy' club system established two of the biggest animal breeding registries..The Kennel Club and the Jockey Club.

Since the ruling bodies of these clubs are frequented by the 'Great and the Good' of the English aristocracy and those political types who use it as their London 'club', its unlikely that they will run their money making arm of business based on democracy and the good of the animals....IMHO.

Yes I fear you are right tooolz.

>I'd dispute that. Last year some puppy farmers had their premises raided and the dogs and puppies seized. They'd regularly been registering, on average, 8 Labrador litters a quarter yet the council had refused to renew their licence because of the conditions. That had been going on for at least 18 months and the KC still registered the litters.

Ah but were they all registered under the same ownership???

I don't remember when the KC brought that rule in 18 months or so ago??

I'd certainly report the matter to the KC if there seems to be an omission, or they have found some way around it (maybe they are showing an old license and changing the date??).

>>I'd dispute that. Last year some puppy farmers had their premises raided and the dogs and puppies seized. They'd regularly been registering, on average, 8 Labrador litters a quarter yet the council had refused to renew their licence because of the conditions. That had been going on for at least 18 months and the KC still registered the litters.
>Ah but were they all registered under the same ownership???

That's part of the problem; if the bitches are registered in the names of several people then technically they're not breaking any rules. Morally it's a different matter, of course.

Ah but were they all registered under the same ownership??? Yes, they certainly where, that was how I (and other people) picked up on it.

I suggested to them a while ago that they continue to register the puppies - as I understand that their income will be dramatically reduced - BUT not advertise them on their puppy register.  The majority of the public think that buying via the KC will give them a quality pedigree puppy.  How wrong they can be...
Obviously I had no response to my suggestion...

I thought volume breeders could not use the Kennel club puppy advertising register?

That's news to me Barbara

No more than 4 litters registered per 12 months UNLESS an Assured Breeder it states for the Find a Puppy ads. (DON'T agree with that! Why should an AB be different?)
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/breeding/novice-breeder/selling-your-kennel-club-registered-dogs/

That's one of the issues people have had with the scheme ...how many commercial kennels are on the scheme.
They have to join in order to advertise whether they believe in the scheme or not and as the KC wants us to believe the scheme is growing in numbers they take them all willingly.
Most of the breeds that commercial kennels deal with have no required health tests at all and it's not even necessary to have an affix to be an AB (matters I have spoken to the KC about on several occasions).
Even when asked "why did you join the scheme" and the reply was "to sell my puppies" the KC didn't bat an eyelid!
The view held by many that the AB scheme mostly made up of commercial kennels and people who rarely/if at all breed is very true.

How do they get around the inspections that all ABS members are going to get ?

Well actually if they are a commercial kennels that are clean and sanitary, keep good records, and would pass boarding kennels licensing then they will pass with flying colours compared to people like us who breed within our homes (impossible to standardise), where dogs are family and we use various adhoc and tried and tested methods of care and accommodation.

Inspections don't like variability, which is exactly what good breeders do, use methods that best suit their individual needs based on the dogs they own, their breed, their individual foibles, likes and dislikes for company or seclusion, heat or cooling, usual practice in the breed re stud dogs (our breed never uses stud contracts, few people have a dog used more than a couple of times).

A friend was most offended when criticised for not having a written plan for disposal of breeding stock.  She was horrified, what do you mean disposal, she said, they stay for life.

I agree Barbara, nothing more "Inspection worthy" than stainless steel and white ceramic tile.

I have to say I have been in some dog breeders houses which were pretty grim but I'd rather have puppies living on squelching carpets than in solitary confinement.

Not sure any official inspection body would agree with me though.

A friend had negative comments, she has two lively young kids and equally lively dogs. 

Her Mum has a small breed, immaculate show home, being of retirement age.  My friend completed all the paperwork for her Mum, helped whelp her bitch and had to remind her to do what and when, and she had negative comments, and her Mum passed with flying colours.

Yet you couldn't get more socialised and bomb proof pups than from my friends lively household (too lively for the inspectors taste).  Her Mums dogs are not particularly sociable.

I resigned.

I'd like to know what they expect for those breeders who are not into IT, still hand write pedigrees, and certainly don't video pups produce copious printed paperwork, probably a hand written diet sheet.

When I bought my foundation bitch from one of the breeds doyennes, I had a hand written pedigree, the scrappy little registration document (that looked like a wage slip), and written diet sheet, some frozen meet and goats milk, and her on the end of the phone any time I needed.  We spoke regularly several times a week sometimes, until a day or so before her death 19 years later.

"I have to say I have been in some dog breeders houses which were pretty grim but I'd rather have puppies living on squelching carpets than in solitary confinement"

Yes !