As I am going through something similar with my bitch, got to talking with someone who's bitch is coming up to 16months old and has yet to have a season. I have just found out that the brother to the bitch has been neutered yesterday due to a retained testicle. My question is, does this now mean that the bitch owner needs to think they may have the same issues too? What can be done to find out and what are their options?

I am interested to know as my bitch  has yet to come in at 14months and I am worried. There are no issues of retaineds or otherwise in my bitch's line, that I know of, but I just feel that something isn't right with her. Didn't know where to post this one but just wondered what your thoughts were.

My GR pup had her first season at 9 months, about normal, her brother however does have a retained testicle. Doesn't seem to be a correlation in these two.

I'd be surprised if any of my Mali bitches had a season before 12-14 months to be honest -for me it's entirely normal and I would not worry about a few months later either. I'd say most of mine are 14 months old at first season. I am always more surprised when people say theirs have come in already at 8 or 9 months. :) There's no connection with retained testicles.

My bitch has just started her first season at 16½ months old. I gather a lot depends on the breed, and the maternal line as well; her mother didn't have her first season until she was 3½ years old, but has gone on to have two fine litters.

Thanks guys. I'll pass the info on at next week's training session. The lady was quite concerned and even more so when she found out about the brother.

Oddly, I saw him about 2 months ago and asked the owner about it (I was looking for a pup and his litter was one I had visited so know the history) and she said he finally had both and that the 2nd had appeared at 11months old. Can't see any reason for her to lie but am wondering about it a bit.

My own bitch has slowly caught up in height but thats about it. She's still very lean, has that weird puppy/undercoat thing going on on her sides and is still picky over food. She is becoming an obsessive groomer (not in an alarming way) but will tidy her forelongs throughout the day (I am stopping her) and loves a good itch. She isn't itchy - she just enjoys it. Am hoping to see something from her soon season wise as even though its not a magical fix, I still think it will help.

If the coat texture is all undercoat and poor top coat then I would be looking at underactive thyroid.

Personally I'd not repeat any mating that had produced retained testicles.   Clearly if both are retained, that dog can't reproduce but if he has one, he could.   As for breeding a sister, I'd not not, but I think I'd choose a stud dog that's not immediately related to the breeding that produced this fault.

As for delayed heats - sometimes this happens.   And I tend to look at when mum/sisters/half sisters first started.  Most of mine started at around 8 months and then cycled at that interval.   Most - I had one who came in bang on 6 months, and then started cycling every 5 months ..... as she wasn't up to my standards, much as we kept her, I had her spayed without issue.   She was a singleton puppy and I don't know whether her doing this had anything to do with that!!!     My Whippet on the other hand, hadn't come in by 11 months at which point, despite him not wanting to spay her at 6 months, preferring her to have one season first, I took her back and asked him to go ahead.   Her mum and half-sisters all came in between 12 and 18 months the first time.  Could be this is a Whippet thing?

I don't know of anything to suggest retained testicles has anything to do with delayed first seasons.

Barbara, the top coat is lovely mostly. Its just on her sides between her ribs and her hips. Would the thyroid not affect the coat all over? She is due her booster next month so will ask the vet while we are there.

Mamabas, I think he only had one retained testicle. The owners knew not to breed from him from the beginning but let him mature before having him done. Apparently the vet 'had a go' at them for not doing it at 5 months. I would have waited a few more months personally but who knows what the reasons were. I think the breeder informed the stud owners and they had him neutured. The bitch is stunning. I have only seen her once at the training on monday night but she is even more stunning than the mother! I know they are doing ring craft with her and really hope they go on to show. If she is successful,  I think they do want 1 litter from her but its too soon to tell.

My bitch's dam came in to season at 8 months as far as I'm aware.

poor coat growth on the flanks is one of the classic symptoms.

Underactive thyroid also affects fertility, missed ovulation long season intervals or erratic patterns.

Make sure to get a full thyroid panel.

Blooming vets no the dog needed to mature. Well done to the owners. My flatcoat didn't come in to her first heat until around 18 months. She has only had one since then and is now three. I have just learned that mum was late with seasons but has gone on to produce wonderful puppies who are doing well at show and mum s now having regular seasons around 6 monthly .
I don't intend to breed from mine and she will stay entire until another couple of years all being well
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Vets just drone out what is drilled in to them unfortunately furrie and we are made to feel guilty for having an opinion.

Thanks brainless, I will make sure they test her. Like I keep saying, something just doesn't feel right here.

I don't see any reason to go in to find the undescended one at only 5 months personally.   Yes, it needs to come out because of the risk of cancer but I'd certainly not expect the difference between 5 months and closer to a year, to be that relevant.  

If her thyroid comes back as ok have a look at articles by jean Dodds on the subject. Even borderline can effect the dog and sometimes vets want very standard yes or no results. YOU can have them tested for second opinion the articles will tell you how and where.
Yes I agree its hard one. I just had a spaying discussion with my vet. The pro's and cons he was telling me about were different in many ways to those that my research has shown me. especially the types of cancers and the likelihood of them beign malignant

Thanks furrie, will do that. I looked at jean's article but really got confused although there are a few symptoms that coincide with underactive thyroid. Hubby keeps telling me not to overthink things but gut feelings tell me brainless is on to something. If I'm not satisfied with the vet's diagnosis,  I shall be asking further questions and lets not forget, there is a wealth of information here too ;)

I agree with brainless too. Yes I can understand why you got confused with the articles I felt the same way myself :)

Just thought I'd update.

Had a call from the vet regarding the blood panel I made him take at my girl's annual booster. He said there wasn't the need to do a full thyroid panel but agreed to a basic panel.

It has come back with concerns of kidney function. I'm a bit confused to be honest but he said I can pick up a copy of the report so will edit accordingly. It shows she is a little dehydrated but not too concerned, red blood cells a little high, thyroid function lower end of acceptable range (20), uriea (?) Higher than normal and something else was high but can't remember now. The thyroid level could be effected by the other stuff going on OR causing it...

He wants me to take a morning urine sample asap for further analysis.  How worried should I be?

Is he going to do a full thyroid test now ? I would be asking for it. I also think try not to panic

Due to the emergencies at the surgery yesterday, no one got back to me about the urine results. I did enquire while we were there last night but nothing was on the notes. Will wait til lunchtime and call them. The idea was to carry out in house tests and if anything untoward was flagged, the sample would be sent for further analysis. I will be pushing for a full thyroid function test when I speak with him. I'll let you know what he says.