I used to live on a farm where my family had Border Collie's throughout my life until I moved to a city about 14yrs ago. I now am married and settled with a young family of my own and I work 2 days per week. Recently I have been itching to have a dog but my quandary is this: as I live on the outskirts of a city I didn't feel a Border Collie wd be a good choice. So, I have been looking at other breeds and have settled on the English Cocker Spaniel. But it's a new breed for me and TBH the only breed I have ever known is the Border Collie - I know them inside out! So, I am wondering should I go with the breed I know even though the urban life may not be ideal or should I move on to another breed?

No reason why an experienced owner should not give a Border Collie a good life in town, in fact they may be better off.

As long as the owner ensures outlets for their working drives. Training exercise, some sort of activity, obedience, agility etc.

Most of the people I know in Obedience have farm bred or rescue collies and live in town.

If you pick the dog carefully and give them plenty of stimulation (both physical and mental) then they can be just fine in an urban setting :-)  I have two and a half collies in an suburban environment, and the only difficulty I face is keeping Phoebe entertained because of her plethora of noise phobias - all of which were developed in her original home in the countryside!  And I worked recently with another collie with similar problems, again out in the countryside - it's not necessarily the best place for them because it severely limits socialisation.  That dog didn't get the exposure to people, dogs and traffic he needed in his early weeks, just like Phoebe didn't.  My youngest only got limited socialisation because her first two homes didn't do enough (well, nothing), and whilst I did my best, the effects have been lasting in my nervous little girl.

What I would say is go with your head, not your heart - if you want a puppy, look for a well bred, well socialised pup from a sensible person.  And then really put the work in to the early socialisation - it makes a big difference with these guys, as I'm sure you know!  But it starts with the breeding.  Three of the above dogs were purposely bred to make money; Willow came from an accidental breeding.  All four are naturally very nervous and it does make life harder, so if you can find a breeder with nice confident, well adjusted adults (with appropriate health tests) then you've already made the job much easier!

Alternatively, find yourself an older, well-adjusted rescue.  Plenty of them around as inexperienced people get them without researching them then get a shock with how much input they need, but plenty of the dogs are sound, just needing more than their original owners were expecting.

>What I would say is go with your head, not your heart - if you want a puppy, look for a well bred, well socialised pup.

>But it starts with the breeding

>All four are naturally very nervous and it does make life harder, so if you can find a breeder with nice confident, well adjusted adults (with appropriate health tests) then you've already made the job much easier!<br />

Could not agree more!!!

>Alternatively, find yourself an older, well-adjusted rescue.  Plenty of them around as inexperienced people get them without researching them then get a shock with how much input they need, but plenty of the dogs are sound, just needing more than their original owners were expecting.

Though with a young family make sure as much of the background is known, especially regarding positive socialisation with children.

Lifestyle should always fit dog, not dog trying to fit in with a human lifestyle. Dogs needs first. ;-)

Having BC's on a farm as you know is totally different to a city life, their needs will be met, the exercise and much needed mental stimulation is automatic, the dogs are happy and content, looking at many pet BC's they are going stir crazy, develop behaviour problems and many are over-weight and not happy dogs at all, not that their owners can see that.

You understand BC's so I doubt that would happen, which is why you are questioning.......I guess it depends on what you can offer one, you say the outskirts of a city, does  that mean countryside, plenty of open parkland not too far? Possibility of agility, flyball or just giving an active life? No BC should have lead pavement walks and then back home to vegitate on the sofa (well no dog should have that :-) )

There are many breeds we love, but if we know we cannot meet their needs it is unfair to have them, their breed traits are emphasized x 10 when not being met and breeds can become difficult to manage, you may well be able to still meet the needs of a BC depends on what you have planned for the dog. :-)

An English Cocker will be a breeze next to a BC, but will still need exercise and stimulation, they are happy, merry little dogs who will get on with people and other dogs as long as from a good reputable breeder, and well socialised, but remember they are gundogs and should have off lead runs, Show Cocker's once adults needing approx 60 mins, Working Cockers as adults from 90 mins a day, they love to please and are easily trained.

If you are to be in an area with mainly pavement and lead walks and are not planning on any outlet via activity classes etc, you may be best to also steer clear of gundogs too as they are not bred to live this way, even though alas many do.

Only you know what you have to offer a dog.......... just think about exercise, stimulation and lifestyle and see if you have that to fit. :-)

Only tip I can give is .......Don't buy a farm dog ..unless you have a farm!

Tempting to get a so called 'working type' then find they are hyper and manic in a domestic setting
and no health testing results in their family.

Some "farm" collies are well bred, health tested & can make good pets with knowledgeable owners. It is wrong to make a sweeping statement that farm dogs are all untested, hyper & manic

.Don't buy a farm dog ..unless you have a farm!
Some years ago a family (couple plus two adult daughters and daughters husbands) I knew went to Scotland on holiday and each pair bought a farm bred B/C pup - all from same litter so 3 pups.
They then did a 'day-care' system where the dad (retired) had ALL 3 pups ALL day while the rest were in work !!!
Yes the result was predictable hyper and manic in a domestic setting,
completely under socialised, under exercised and obsessed with each other at the expense of every thing else. :-(

> An English Cocker will be a breeze next to a BC

I think that comes down to the individual owner!  I favour collies, dobes and malis and their crosses but I wouldn't go near a spaniel, far too busy for me.  I just don't get on with them and I've had two!  But conversely, I know spaniel owners who find collies too manic and obsessive and wouldn't go near them but I find them quite easy, despite the problems mine have.

>Some "farm" collies are well bred, health tested & can make good pets with knowledgeable owners.

Some being the operative word!

Ok MANY farm collie pups are unsuitable.

Over a decade ago I had a stream of collie pups to my puppy classes, being a country area they were mostly farm dogs.
Hip, elbow but predominately mental issues made them totally unsuitable for a domestic situation.
The farmers ' no return' policy didnt help the situation.

I have a farm collie, live in the suburbs and have no car. We do lead walks and off lead run arounds in local parks and neighbouring fields. We don't do agility/flyball or obedience as we can't get to classes (no car). She is a perfect weight and is a very happy dog (I get A LOT of comments of how friendly, sociable, and happy she is towards people). She is a dream to live with. Yes, she was hard work as a puppy so I put a ton of effort into her and that effort now shows. I know plenty of other collies who live similar lives who are pretty similar. Urban collies can work out very well.

The advantage can be that in town you have designated recreational space.  The country is not in the main recreational space, but someone's living, full of livestock, wildlife and crops, so may not be suitable for allowing doggies to have the freedom to safely exercise, it would seem being in the country would give, unless you have your own land.

Over a decade ago I had a stream of collie pups to my puppy classes, being a country area they were mostly farm dogs. Hip, elbow but predominately mental issues made them totally unsuitable for a domestic situation. The farmers ' no return' policy didnt help the situation.

So your experience of 10 years ago is applicable today ??

Surely if you ran training classes you should have been able to help the dogs & owners on to the path of better lives ? Lots of the them had hip & elbow dysplasia did they ?

I have no idea of where you operate your dog training, but surely if someone is a knowledgeable ex collie owner they would do research before purchasing a puppy ?

Your further sweeping generalization of "farm" collies being dysphasic(hip & elbow)as well as having "mental" issues is also unfounded :-(

>Yes, she was hard work as a puppy so I put a ton of effort into her and that effort now shows.

And there is the key.  :-)

I think the BC is the best dog in the world.  I do a lot of brain work with my boy, and he loves to solve problems.  It is knowing the needs of the breed that counts.  And as you say, putting in the effort.  (I just wish more folk would.)