Our female was accidently bred by a relatives dog ( they were out of site for less than 60 seconds ). We didn't think she was in heat and hoped she wouldn't get pregnant, but we just found out that she did. The relative was rehoming the dog the following day because they weren't home enough and he chewed up their house and peed on the floor. He was only about a year old, and they had owned him for about 4 months. At that time they swore not  get any more dogs, but now that we're having puppies they are insisting that we GIVE them a puppy because it was their dog that fathered them, ( even though they don't have him anymore ) and they somehow seem to think that a brand new puppy will be easier to handle than an older one. We've also been told that the previous dog was punched, at least once, as it was witnessed, and we don't want to put a puppy in that position. Do we HAVE to give them one, and how can we avoid the fight if we refuse?

We want our puppies to go to good homes and have a few friends who are interested, but this relative is not someone who we feel should have a dog.

No You dont have to give them one.They are your puppies and you can do what ever you want with them. There was no stud agreement so they have no claim. I wonder if they will be so happy to take responsibility for the puppies if your bitch should have problems whelping  and need a c-section costing £600-£700. I bet they will claim the litter is nothing to do with them then!

If you are giving the puppies away to friends etc you are not going to make any money on the litter and it will cost you a lot more to buy extra food, wormer, bedding etc so this litter will leave you considerably out of pocket. Unless these people want to contribute financially to the rearing of the litter tell them to get lost.

Unless you have a signed and countersigned contract with them aggreeing to give them a puppy instead of a stud fee they have no claim at all. How they'll respond to that is anyone's guess; if you wanted to be nasty in return you could ask them to pay your costs for having the unwanted litter from your bitch which their dog sired.

if you wanted to be nasty in return you could ask them to pay your costs for having the unwanted litter from your bitch which their dog sired.

Or demand they contact the new owner of the dog and pay for him to have all the relevant health tests such as eye testing, hip scoring, any DNA tests etc, whatever is required for the breed, and supply you with copies of all the test certificates -that will soon make them run a mile I am sure as of course it is not cheap, but is what you EXPECT to get when you pay a stud fee. And handing over a pup IS paying a stud fee.

Would it not be easier to take her to your Vet for an injection to end the unwanted pregnancy, avoiding hassle with the dog's owner and to save bringing unplanned puppies into the world?  Our rescue kennels are full of puppies and dogs needing homes.

I agree with Westcoast; far better to prevent any possible fight by terminating the litter. How long ago did the mating happen?

Would it not be easier to take her to your Vet for an injection to end the unwanted pregnancy, avoiding hassle with the dog's owner and to save bringing unplanned puppies into the world?  Our rescue kennels are full of puppies and dogs needing homes. .

Spot on

I was rather assuming that as the poster has just found out the bitch IS pregnant that she must be quite far along.

The injection can be given up to 6 weeks after mating. 

Alternatively the bitch could be spayed, even far on, after all it would be no more traumatic or risky than a C section.

>Alternatively the bitch could be spayed, even far on, after all it would be no more traumatic or risky than a C section.

Vets wont spay late on to kill puppies these days. They would in early pregnancy but not later on. And the injection given at 42 days causes the bitch to miscarry and give birth to immature fetus's. The pregnancy does not just disappear so it is again not the sort of thing everyone wants to do.

Still better than an unplanned litter.

Its very sad that on a site which is supposed to be for dog lovers someone would happily see the slaughter of puppies and the traumatising of a bitch and her owners . Especially as we know very little about the puppies  and how carefully the owner will be bringing them up and finding suitable homes for them. Particularly  when breeding litters themselves.

I couldn't agree with you less.  These pups will be produced without any knowledge of temperament/health tests and any problems passed on to unsuspecting new families - not something that I would ever recommend.  :(

Surely much better than an uncertain future for unplanned puppies, who may or may not have good health and temperament and make suitable companions or working dogs.

I assume you also disagree with Abortion, (which is legal tom 24 weeks) when the situation is unsuitable/unplanned. 

There are far too many unplanned and planned litters bred with no health testing or any long term commitment, these sadly are more likely to end up in rescue and go to owners that are casual about acquiring and then often disposing of a pet.

The kind of owners we all want puppies to go to are not going to go for a chance bred litter, but wait for the puppy bred by someone who has done it properly.

> Its very sad that on a site which is supposed to be for dog lovers someone would happily see the slaughter of puppies and the traumatising of a bitch and her owners . Especially as we know very little about the puppies; and how carefully the owner will be bringing them up and finding suitable homes for them. Particularly when breeding litters themselves.

Let's get back to the original question asked by the OP.
Whatever course of action he/she has chosen with regard this litter, the owner of the male has NO claim on them at all.

In fact it's a liberty to even suggest that they have "parental rights" when if the two dogs were being properly supervised, a mating could have been prevented in the first place.

I would imagine the owner of the male is thinking these puppies are going to be sold for money, and such is the mercenary attitude of people these days with regards to animals, wants a slice of the "profit".

Yes there would be none if the pregnancy was terminated, but there are no rights to be had for an unplanned, accidental mating which will leave the bitch owner facing many weeks of work and expense.

Of course there may be two sides to the story - while it can happen that bitch owners do not realise their girl is in season, more often it it a case of unintentional ignorance, when well-meaning owners think the season is over when the bitch stops bleeding.

>Its very sad that on a site which is supposed to be for dog lovers someone would happily see the slaughter of puppies and the traumatising of a bitch and her owners

It's precisely because we are dog lovers that we feel it's better for puppies from an unplanned, unwanted litter from unhealth-tested parents to ever be born than to (as is likely with such a start in life) be put to sleep as unwanted adults in rescue. The people on here see beyond the 'aw, how swet, cute puppies' situation and take the longer-term view.

Unfortunately they do still do that as someone had bitch in her 8th wk and had her spayed then she had 8 pups. They didn't want the hassle of pups but couldn't be bothered to keep their male away from the bitch so had puppies killed when they spayed her

Would it not be easier to take her to your Vet for an injection to end the unwanted pregnancy, avoiding hassle with the dog's owner and to save bringing unplanned puppies into the world?

Totally agree with this too!!!

However, if there was no written stud agreement, these puppies will be YOUR puppies to dispose of as you decide.  You do not have to give them a puppy.    However, I do believe that all puppies should cost something - giving away free is a bad idea - easy come, easy go!

ps    I don't accept 'didn't know she was in season'.   Unless by chance, this was a silent heat.  But even then it should have been obvious males were interested in her - and I'd suggest, no bitch would be in standing heat from day one?

With the canine high conception rate you can pretty much bet that if a mating occurs the bich will get pregnant, especially a DIY unwanted mating.

The lady across the road from me (whose Goldie I walked for many years) after knowing me for years, knowing my dogs and seeing my litters allowed her little bitch to have a litter on her first season.

the dog was pestering the bitch so they split them up, but someone let them out together and a mating was witnessed.  One Saturday morning they were 'surprised' to find her whelping.

We were so angry, these were small toy breed size dogs (one a chi cross they had paid £750 for as purebred unregistered) and they were told not to home until a minimum of 10 weeks.

I lent a crate vet bed etc. (still not had back).  Training friend got them food, I gave them puppy milk from my last litter still in date.

They had been told when to worm, to cut nails, they did none of this.  Our training friend to help them out offered to have one of the pups for her son's other half with older children.  I had call at 4 weeks from friend asking me to go over and cut pups nails, they still hadn't been wormed.

I wormed them, with instructions to worm again at 7 weeks and just before they went.

What happened, pups became hard work and were homed at barely 7 weeks, with 'friends'.  within two days someone wanted  rid of the pup as they couldn't cope.  The training friend had it herself, who knows what fate awaits the other three puppies.

All the time when being advised what to do they said yes we know, but didn't do it.  My husband was so cross he wouldn't go over to see them, as he didn't want to be condoning it.

>Unfortunately they do still do that as someone had bitch in her 8th wk and had her spayed then she had 8 pups.

Not unfortunate at all.   What a sensible vet taking the long term view. Also the owners will never be able to make that mistake again, with that bitch.

Same common sense as an acquaintances vet who PTS 7 out of 9 pups from a young undernourished rescue bitch adopted from RSPCA Dogs Home, who had allowed her to be mated while there for several months!!!

The Dogs home wanted them to allow her back into kennels to have her litter, and rear it, before letting her go back to her new home!!!!

the experienced friend was able to home the two puppies left to assuage maternal instinct, she kept one herself and the breeder of her previous dogs daughter had the other.

The relative was rehoming the dog the following day because they weren't home enough and he chewed up their house and peed on the floor. He was only about a year old, and they had owned him for about 4 months

It's amazing how the thought of a free cute puppy can make people completely forget how they didn't enjoy the chewing, peeing, pooing and attention needed from a previous dog. :-( I certainly would not allow people like this to ever have a pup of mine, in fact I would worry about them having a goldfish, the punch if it happened is unacceptable and it is a shame the RSPCA were not called at the time too.

Agree with everyone else, they have absolutely no claim on any pups, accidental mating or not, nothing was planned, nothing was in writing, they can toddle off and have as many paddies as they want, the pups are yours.

However, think carefully about this litter put the thought of pups to one side and think of your bitch, I take it neither dogs are KC or health tested as there is no mention of signing KC papers by the stud dog owner, they may not even be of the same breed? How will your bitch carry this litter, will she have problems, will you know how to cope with breach births, pups getting stuck, pups being born not breathing, the bitch getting into trouble, knowing if a c-section is needed, knowing if she has pyo, calcium deficiencies, mastitis etc, don't just go happily along thinking everything will be tickerty boo, many bitches die, many pups die.

If you don't know what you are doing don't risk your bitch's life and as others have suggested take her for that injection to remove the pups, put your bitch first above everything else, those of us who go into breeding with much experience and knowledge can suffer heartbreak, it should never be gone into without all knowledge at least to hand beforehand.

Wishing you the best and particularly your girl that she will be safe.

Without amonishing the poster but keeping to the actual question asked.

If she didn't know that her bitch was in season and then the said bitch was only out of sight for a minute or so: how can she actually be sure that the 'stud' dog in question is the actual father of the puppies?

She doesn't state where the mating took place. If the bitch was loose (and not knowing that she was in season), she may well have been mated by more than one 'stud' over the course of the season and unless the relative in question is prepared to pay for DNA testing, she well may never know.

Just another take on the matter........

No you don't have to give them a puppy, and I agree that any threats from them could quite easily be answered by you demanding money off them for vet fees. I also agree with several on here that if it's not too late, you would be much better off terminating the pregnancy and not having to worry about finding homes for the puppies.

However, think carefully about this litter put the thought of pups to one side and think of your bitch, I take it neither dogs are KC or health tested as there is no mention of signing KC papers by the stud dog owner, they may not even be of the same breed? How will your bitch carry this litter, will she have problems, will you know how to cope with breach births, pups getting stuck, pups being born not breathing, the bitch getting into trouble, knowing if a c-section is needed, knowing if she has pyo, calcium deficiencies, mastitis etc, don't just go happily along thinking everything will be tickerty boo, many bitches die, many pups die.

This should be in Dills vet poster

How will your bitch carry this litter, will she have problems, will you know how to cope with breach births, pups getting stuck, pups being born not breathing, the bitch getting into trouble, knowing if a c-section is needed, knowing if she has pyo, calcium deficiencies, mastitis etc, don't just go happily along thinking everything will be tickerty boo, many bitches die, many pups die.

I always think that it's comparable to going into labour with only your best friend with you, who means well but has no knowledge or experience, rather than a trained and experienced midwife!  Not something that I would ever want to do and so I can't understand anyone putting their bitch in that situation if they care about them........ :(

Yup Tish, we discussed that :-)

I've no idea what they will put in the poster though.

I always think that it's comparable to going into labour with only your best friend with you, who means well but has no knowledge or experience, rather than a trained and experienced midwife!

Absolutely!  

I'm always amazed how casually many people treat breeding their bitches.  It's as if they believe they're exempt from disasters

Exactly !  then throw into the mix a whole different species.

It was not a matter of thinking she was done her heat, there was no bleeding, and hasn't been any for over a year now.

In response to those wondering, she is over 7 weeks by now so I think she is too far along for termination, and I am not sure I could bring myself to do that anyway. 

She didn't bleed, and hasn't in almost 2 years. As far as male interest giving it away, there are no males around us. All our neighbours have females as well.

I know what you mean - I'd have no trouble having the jab done if it was only a few weeks, but at more than 7 weeks the puppies are virtually viable. Well, just make sure this person knows there is absolutely no way he is due a puppy, and make sure all your other friends and relatives that are interested in having one understand that they aren't to pass it on to him!

Firstly  I would like to thank everyone for the input and insite. It is appreciated. That said, we do know the male in question is the father. They were in our living room, like I said, very little time out of sight.. They are not the same breed, but are close in size, the male is actually a little smaller. We are not experienced breeders, but we do have one next door who has offered to help out if we need it and given us some pointers. We decided to go ahead and let our girl have her puppies. Hopefully there will be no big surprises.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions.

Really pleased that you have someone next door who will be there to help you, I recommend that you get 'The Book Of the Bitch' to at least help you with the basics of what to expect and look out for. :-)

Silent seasons are just one of those things......... so pleased you are being really fussy about the homes these potential pups will go to, (continue to be very fussy) not everyone can abort a litter especially so far along..... it is your choice, but it's a shame you didn't realise sooner.

Once the potential pups **fingers crossed** are here along with your neighbour we will be here to help with any questions re: rearing, weaning etc, so don't feel alone, and wishing your girl all the best here. :-)