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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Dealing with grief/change in circumstances
- By Sawheaties [gb] Date 11.07.14 13:12 UTC
I need some advice, I will try and précis it. A week ago we gave our 15 yr old sleep. We had 4 dogs, 15, 11, 9 and 5. The two youngest are mother and son and due to their bouncy nature they were separate from the two oldies for the past 14 months and it worked well. Now there is an oldie on her own, she is top dog, always has been always will be.

We started with walking the older one with one of the younger ones, then having them together in the garden. This softly softly approach appears to have worked well and we now have them all back together ( except at night as the older one has always slept on our bed) As expected we have had a couple of grumbles between the girls about who sits next to me etc etc.

Now the oldest one and the youngest one ( a male who is very non confrontational) have gone on hunger strike and he and his mother have taken to howling :( I appreciate that things have changed here and we all have to adapt. Before we had doors closed and now they are all open, do you think we should go back to having them in a room with us with the doors shut? have we changed their circumstances too quickly ?  I know it is difficult as we can't explain to them why everything has changed but I want them to be able to cope better. I think the younger male is worried by the presence of the older bitch as his mother will let him get away with murder whereas the older bitch will tell him off.

Any suggestions gratefully receieved.
- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 11.07.14 17:27 UTC
have gone on hunger strike and he and his mother have taken to howling

Howling episodes are not common in most dogs but when they do & its out of their normal character its generally thought that they are tying to locate their pack - thats not a scientific fact but its a fairly common belief, if thats the case with your dogs then its probably because they are trying to locate the late dog, a form of pineing.
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- By Dill [gb] Date 11.07.14 19:45 UTC
We gave our oldest bitch sleep last year.

She was Granny, we still have Mum and 'Baby'  (6yo)

Since then, both have become 'funny' about food.    The youngest wouldn't eat, then the oldest srarted leaving most of hers.  No aggression, maybe a look or two, but nothing tangible.

They all used to eat in the kitchen together happily.

Currently, after trying loads of different arrangements, the youngest eats her dinner in the back porch,  and the older one eats in the kitchen.  The door is closed between them.   It works for now.   But it's so weird, they still love being together, it's just mealtimes.

I think, no matter how well or badly they get on,  when one dog is lost from their 'pack' it unsettles them all for some time and it takes time for them all to adjust and find their 'place' again.

In you case, this has all happened in the space of a week.   Maybe it was just too many changes in too short a time?
- By Sawheaties [gb] Date 11.07.14 21:48 UTC
I wonder that too Dill. The oldest bitch is now happy as she has company again but the other two that are a team are a bit shell shocked that she's back!! She may be the smallest but she is definitely the boss.

What I am not sure about is if the two who did not have contact with the oldie are mourning? I suppose it is just time. Both have eaten tonight and all three are lying in the lounge keeping my husband company.

I suppose we just have to take it day by day :)
- By Sawheaties [gb] Date 11.07.14 21:50 UTC
Just to add I agree that they are all finding their place in the pack again. The oldest bitch must be running out of wee soon as soon as anyone goes she is covering it and even if they wee on it again she forces another out. 
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 12.07.14 11:17 UTC
We've had loads of comings and goings within our pack over the years, but we have always kept to the exact same routine, so these goings were obviously accepted.   Only once before the two last of our bloodline, did we have anything that showed they new one had gone and that was with an old girl who always had the mat by the fire and nobody challenged her ever, for that spot.   When she went for a long time, and I mean over a month, absolutely nobody moved in on that spot.  It was Minnie's place.    With our last two it was quite different.  They were brother and sister and as close a pair as I'd ever had within the pack - and we did tend to run on at least two from our occasional litters.   We lost the sister after about a year battling with her cancer and our then vet!!    When she went, he was distraught.   Not only because he clearly had relied totally on her, but because he'd never lived as a single hound.   Seeing how he was, we immediately set about finding him a companion, although that took 4 months by which time he had started to settle down, and enjoy coming everywhere with us as I couldn't bring myself to leave him alone in the house.

Even if we moved, we always stuck to the same routine, so I think this helped with our inevitable losses.
- By WendyJ [gb] Date 08.08.14 17:00 UTC
We had our oldest (almost 15 at the time, with a 12, 7, 5 and 2 x 2yo left behind) coming up on 2 years.  We did it at home and let the 5 come and see her and sniff, so they knew she was gone.  They all reacted quite well, except our next oldest (the 12 year old) had a rough time that night.  She aged in just a few hours.  We had a dog show scheduled for the next day and we decided to go to it, just to get ourselves out of the house.  Savannah was quite bad that morning, brightened up a bit during the day when her Jr Handler arrived, and then when she saw her best boyfriend dog, and by the time she was in the ring at the end of the day she was almost back to normal.  She was still very sad, but that deeply depressed look was gone.  I sometimes wonder if we hadn't gone to that show, and stayed home being depressed ourselves, if she would have made it, or if she would have succumbed to the depression. 

Similar to what someone else said, Chelsea (the dog we let go) had a spot in the bed behind my knees.  She slept there every night of her almost 15 years, and it felt so empty.  I wished one of the others would have taken it, but it took the better part of a year before any of them would.  Now it's the most sought after spot, and they are forever edging each other out of it LOL.

It takes time.  Savannah wasn't herself for several months.  She was mostly happy, but she was just off.  It was early this year that she finally came round and that was after we started her on an additional Senior dog supplement.  I can't recommend it highly enough for senior dogs, and maybe it will help in your situation for your current oldie to help her get through http://www.vetvits.co.uk/dog-supplements/multivitality-senior-formerly-trim-boost/productdetail-p15892-c1786997.aspx  I'm always skeptical, but figure things are worth a try.  This completely brought our girl back from the edge, and she's now coming up for her 14th birthday in a couple of months.

Best of luck finding the new normal.  It will take all of you time to adjust.
- By WendyJ [gb] Date 08.08.14 19:05 UTC
The above should read 'we had our oldest put to sleep', as the first sentence.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 09.08.14 09:03 UTC
It took a couple of months here for everyone to get back to normal after Opi was taken ill earlier this year - from healthy to gone in a week and she was always a fantastically healthy, active, playful dog.  She was also the matriarch of the group and very involved so she really left a big hole.

Conversely when Remy died after a two-day illness last month, everyone was back to normal within days - but his body had been slowly deteriorating for months before that due to various problems, he spent most of his time just chilling on his bed so it wasn't such a massive difference to lose him.  Even Willow - who struggled worse than anyone to come to terms with Opi dying - just sniffed him a few times then carried on.
- By Sawheaties [gb] Date 12.08.14 14:54 UTC
Update: It's been just over a month since Ed left us. I got them all back eating normally with the help of Malted Kelp tablets from Dorwest. I was away last week at the World Dog Show and asked my husband to go to the vets and collect his ashes as I couldn't bring myself to say the words to the receptionist, so he is now home where he belongs. Whilst I was away my oldest girl stopped eating again. She always slept on the bed with us but since Ed left she has slept in his bed in our bedroom.

It just takes time for us all to adjust.
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Dealing with grief/change in circumstances

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