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Topic Dog Boards / General / Clicker training
- By agilabs Date 08.07.14 06:54 UTC
Hi all, after a quick bit of advice please :-)

I have a 9 week old Vizsla puppy (and I went for Jinks in the end, thanks for the name help!) and I have been using the clicker to teach her a down. I haven't got to the stage of naming it properly yet, but she is offering it nicely when we're in 'training mode' ie, in the kitchen with clicker and treats away from the others. Last night I decided to try to teach her to stand in a biscuit tin (on the floor, obv!), she initially kept offering a down and was getting frustrated with me when I didn't reward it, I ignored that and we moved on (progressed to 2 feet in the box already, need to work on the back 2 next). My question is that it seems to me that in her eyes I've suddenly changed my mind on what I want and that seems unfair on her, should I only teach a new behaviour when the previous one is solid to a verbal cue so she knows the difference? Or is it ok to train two things at once?
Thanks! BTW, it goes without saying that she is the most intelligent puppy in the world and has learnt really quickly with a few little short lessons, not been doing huge amounts with her yet or anything!
- By Schnauday [gg] Date 08.07.14 07:08 UTC
I'm no training expert but as I read "teach her to stand in a biscuit tin" I thought wow that's a bit much/strange for young pup. Are you trying to teaching by shaping the behaviour ? I would have been teaching leave it, wait, stay any of the usual basic commands. She has to learn how to learn if that make sense keep it easy so she gets lots of reward and its fun. 
- By Tectona [gb] Date 08.07.14 07:47 UTC
The quick answer is no, you don't need to have one thing on cue to teach another. You need to widen the goal posts, so to speak, increase her chances of success when learning new things by manipulating the environment or her to get it right. Put the tin somewhere where she can't avoid looking at it, and click and treat looking, build it up so that she will touch it, touch it twice, touch it 3 times, duration on the touch, one foot in, click for looking again, one foot in, two touches etc.
Keep your training sessions short and diverse, ie sits, puppy retrieve, "leave", and since she's HPR, mega solid recall!!! so that she learns to 'try' different things. And I would leave the down for a little while, if she's that confident offering it she's not going to forget it once you build it up again! I would be more inclined to spend training sessions on the more important life skills at this very young stage though I think, depending on the stamina of the dog, maybe she'll do more, you'd know her best :)

Short, diverse sessions, set her up to succeed :)
- By Tommee Date 08.07.14 08:30 UTC
Don't forget that "training" sessions should be very short at her age, clicker training makes the dog use it's brain to work out what is expected/is rewarded. No more than 5/10 minutes at a time.

I can usually get a puppy to sit/stand/down in that time, not 100% of course, but a good start with hand signals(with the reward in the hand)being used to lure the puppy.

The same goes for training to walk with you, one or two steps at a time only & play either side of course
- By agilabs Date 08.07.14 12:39 UTC
Thanks for the input all, I'm not new to training but not used a clicker with a pup before (done a bit with adult dogs but they don't pick it up as easily I found)
Funnily enough, I chose the stand-in-a-box thing mainly because it seemed simple and fun for her (down/wait etc all require self-control and restraint from her) as she naturally climbs in things ATM anyhow, plus she can do it fast and enthusiastically without having to hold a precise position (it's quite  abig box, she only has to stand 4 square to get in it) . I find waits are harder for a little pup as they don't want to be left.
I have been keeping the sessions really short, mainly done when she is bored and starting to pester the other dogs. She has a good toy drive already, I've been encouraging her to drive onto a 'dead' toy, that's so much fun for her though it doesn't require much concentration.  (She's my future agility dog so toy drive is really helpful)

Thanks again.
- By Harley Date 08.07.14 15:09 UTC
Have you proofed the clicker with her? By this I mean does she know that the clicker marks the desired behaviour and that a reward follows. I do this by dropping treats on the floor and as the dog moves to take a treat I click the clicker each time - so the click is marking moving towards the treat, then the click is followed by the dog getting the treat (the reward). I throw the treats away from me so I am able to get the timing of the click correct and I spend about four to five days doing this before going on to training a new behaviour.

Sometimes people get this wrong and think that you click to make the behaviour happen rather than to mark the desired behaviour. I don't lure at all with any of the clicker training I do but reward the tiniest move towards that behaviour  as someone else has already described. The dogs use their brain to work out what to do and I have used this method with adult dogs with great success. You don't have to wait until one behaviour is perfected before introducing a new one.

When I get the clicker out of the cupboard the dogs are really excited and my GR will go through a whole repertoire of behaviours in the hope that he is doing one that will be rewarded. As with all training I gradually phase the clicker out after the desired behaviour has been learnt to a command but still use it to teach new behaviours.

Always remember that when learning any new behaviour that if you click a reward must follow - even if you clicked in error :-) One of my dogs prefers a toy to a treat and that is his reward :-)
Topic Dog Boards / General / Clicker training

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