a lady who lives two doors down from me bought a staffy last year... a bitch, soon after she bought another, hes much bigger than the female and hes blue, so she was all excited saying im going to breed them and sell my blue puppies.... i was just like ok whatever, i dont even know her to be honest its just a quick hello in the street or a hi hows you if i see her pegging out her washing, so i seen her dogs getting down to business in her back garden, they were tied, my other neighbor who lives inbetween me and the lady was saying should i separate them, i explained no you could hurt them and its too late anyways, so the lady came out and was all excited! i told her she could go to the vet and get an injection which would stop her from becoming pregnant, but she wont, she wants her dog to be pregnant. shes had no health testing and shes only 18months old, i feel so sorry for this dog. is she going to be ok and survive birth at such a young age? and also with the male dog being bigger

She should be ok but no health tests etc are a worry. She will probably be more upset when the puppies are NOT blue as both parents have to carry the gene lol serves her right.

> she was all excited saying im going to breed them and sell my blue puppies....

From what I can gather she may not even get blue puppies

You have done all you can to advise this person, she is not going to listen to you..whatever you say...she wants to make money full stop. I suspect that poor thing is being mated continuously, without supervision!!!

If the bitch is 18 months, it is not the age I would mate but some say it's old enough! Some also say its better that age, it can also be breed dependant. A male should be bigger than a female, the breed standards do allow them to be bigger.

I posted a little story not long ago about a friend of a friend who mated their Staffy bitch to a Blue dog as the pups would ALL be blue and sell SO easily for £1200. Needless to say the bitch did not carry blue so 7 pups born and all were black and white like the mum. Price started off high then kept dropping as nobody wanted them. Parents not health tested and not KC registered either, so who would want to pay much for such a pup? You can find them anywhere for next to nothing or even free. Rescues are full of them. Sadly the only way people will learn seem to be to go ahead and breed and then end up unable to sell the pups. There is then at least a good chance they won't do it again. But for every person who does it, more dogs end up in rescue.

is she going to be ok and survive birth at such a young age? and also with the male dog being bigger

Who knows, no-one can predict what can go wrong and the thing that really gets to me is when people haven't even done any research on helping out a bitch if she is in trouble whilst whelping, they don't know how to cope with the bitch or the pups if in trouble, really, really gets me when people go into breeding just hoping a + b will mate and make c with no hitches, lets hope there aren't any, but nothing anyone can do, that is the sad thing, getting involved with these things just causes frustration, seems to be happening all over the country.

I know of someone who has bred her pet dog no health tests, or any knowledge, 4 times now back to back and she uses the money it brings in every time to go on holiday, in fact brags about it, the tax man has had a call, but no stopping these things going on. :-(

>4 times now back to back

Now that made my blood boil.

    4 times now back to back
Now that made my blood boil.

No kidding, and clearly this breeder doesn't register these puppies ...... KC doesn't (didn't?) accept registrations from litters from the same bitch within 12 months.   For good reason.

For me, mating a bitch at 18 months only is pushing it although she'll probably be okay.  Ditto with the size of the male although that's a worry.   If he was significantly bigger, she may not carry to term even.   Testing clearly doesn't come into any of this for this person.    I wish she'd gone down to her local Shelter before going ahead and producing even more Staffies/Staffie-type puppies!!  

But this is preaching to the converted eh.

MamaBas, this is why I try to always be in the KC's corner as thank goodness for them......... at least they can protect a bitch from this kind of treatment, unregistered pet dogs have no-one to care for them or protect them and are continually abused by such people. I have no doubt that this particular bitch will probably die at some stage as it is not going to stop until she can no longer produce, I also have no doubt that when too old if she lives that long she'll be passed on to make room for another.

I just hope that the tax man can make a difference....... it is all I can do...........

KC doesn't (didn't?) accept registrations from litters from the same bitch within 12 months.   For good reason.

That's incorrect, they do. It's only refused if you are a licensed breeder.

This is also why people should not buy non-KC registered puppies - there is absolutely nothing to prevent bybs breeding litters back to back, one purebred to register and the next probably cross-bred and certainly unregistered.  If puppy buyers insisted on a KC registered puppy, the bitches would get the benefit of some protection - it may not be the best, but it is something.

>KC doesn't (didn't?) accept registrations from litters from the same bitch within 12 months.   For good reason.

>That's incorrect, they do. It's only refused if you are a licensed breeder.

Would they carry on registering if the owner kept breeding back to back though like in this case for 4 litters?

This is just sod's law though isn't it? Someone who cares, will plan and plan and plan. They will fork out for tests, scans, vaccinations etc, etc and may still not end up with a litter or if they do - barely cover the costs and yet people like this, stick 2 dogs in the backyard, end up with 12 puppies and sell all of them at £250  each. £3, 000 without any concerns for quality of life, health or where they'll end up.

£3, 000 tax free! Sounds like a win - win situation to me. NOT

It's not tax free, only ifyou're under the thresh hold for paying tax.

And if you are on means tested benefits, it can make a right mess of things, especially if you don't tell them and you get reported  ;-)

Would they carry on registering if the owner kept breeding back to back though like in this case for 4 litters?

According to my KCBRs for my breed, no.

Would they carry on registering if the owner kept breeding back to back though like in this case for 4 litters?

According to my KCBRs for my breed, no.

Not sure what you mean by KCBRs -Breeding Restrictions for your breed, or the BRS? Breeds of course have different restrictions, and when I just checked the Breeding Restrictions for Basset, there is nothing to say you cannot register 4 litters back to back. Nor is there any such general rule, but some breeds do have the restriction that they can only have one litter registered within a 12 month period, after breed clubs having asked for this. However most do not. So yes the KC would register 4 litters back to back for most breeds. Not something I'd ever agree with, but currently there is nothing to stop it from happening UNLESS you are a council licensed breeder.

KCBRs -   Kennel Club Breed Records Supplement.    I'll have to check the situation now, but was a time when the KC wouldn't accept the registration of a litter from the same bitch within a 12 month period - ie back to back matings.    I was aware of this being done in America on occasion, especially when a bitch had proven difficult to get in whelp - when, depending on the size of the successful litter, they might do another in quick succession.   Anybody in my breed mating a bitch that often, from successive seasons, whether or not there's a rule, would definitely be frowned on.

If the KC has relaxed this rule since I retired from breeding, then shame on them.

There is no such thing as notes on litters NOT being accepted in the BRS.

"My bitch has had 2 litters within a 12 month period, can I register the litter?

The Kennel Club does not endorse this and would recommend at least a year is given between litters, however we do understand that in situations of accidents or if a bitch has irregular seasons, a second application will be accepted. Breeders who breed four or more litters per year must be licensed by their local authority. Breeders with fewer litters must also be licensed if they are carrying out a business of breeding dogs for sale.
- See more at: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/registration/registering-your-pedigree-dog-litter/litter-registration-faqs/#sthash.qt0jHCBi.dpuf"

I have just done a bit of searching and found the above so clearly there has been some relaxing of the rules as I knew them when I was 'active'  ........ also you are reading things (Goldmali) that I have NOT said.   I may be ambiguous, but I meant to say I have not seen any sign of litters being registered, in my breed, in the KCSBs coming from bitches who have been subjected to back to back breeding.   I agree - there is indeed no such thing as notes on litters not being accepted ...... so on that we can agree.   Sigh.

The thing is, the KC got rid of the 12 month rule (when I don't know, but many years ago -it definitely did not exist 8 years ago) to be flexible to RESPONSIBLE breeders. I would not want to see it back. You could for instance have the scenario where you mated a bitch 12 months after the previous mating, and ended up with a litter being born early, so pups being born say 364 days after the previous one. It would be ridiculous to refuse registration of such a litter. Also as there are bitches who only has one season a year, again it would be difficult to have a blanket ban on back to back matings. What I personally think would make a lot more sense is having a rule for everyone that no bitch may have two litters registered unless there had been 11 months in between. That should safeguard the bitch and allow for the odd days or week before 12 months. After all, bitches don't always work the exact way we expect and it isn't always possible to wait more than a year in between litters just to make certain there has been a full 365 days. It could for instance be a case of the bitch approaching her 8th birthday and the previous litter did not give you a pup of the right sex, and so you want another roughly a year later.

There are also bitches that only cycle once a year and this may be 10+ or so months between seasons, and age and timing, size of last litter may make the next season mating appropriate occasionally, but not as routine

For the KCAB scheme no bitch can have more than one litter in a 12 month period.

Is that for all breeds, can't say I'd noticed as it has never applied to me.

That is only for certain breeds, not all.

The main bulk of my paper work says it's for all breeds

Never seen that and if you look online it says nothing other than in the breed specific requirements & recommendations it's mentioned for some breeds.

Going to look at it shortly.. The front of the pamphlet said it.. Unless they've changed it in re last year

A friend of mine had an accidental mating and knew nothing about it until the bitch was 7 weeks in whelp.  She was a small breed and only 9 mths old at whelping.  I went to her house to whelp the litter as she didn't have a clue and as much as I could have killed her for letting it happen in the first place I wouldn't turn my back on the bitch.  It is the easiest whelping I have ever seen.  5 pups born, cleaned and feeding happily in under 2 hours.  My friend had her bitch spayed a few months later. 

"It's not tax free"

I think tax free was meant in the sense that such people will generally be paid in cash, not keeping records of the litter and not not declaring the income.