Can someone put in "Idiot Terms" at what point can you win a C.C.

EG: If a Minor Puppy wins Best Minor Puppy In Breed at a Championship Show does he win a C.C.

There are usually 2 CC's on offer for each breed at a Championship show. One for the dog and one for the bitch. If you win your class then you qualify to enter the challenge for the CC. All unbeaten Dogs/Bitches compete against one another for the Bitch or Dog CC.
So the answer to you question is  NO the puppy does not win the CC unless he beats all the other class winners  and is declared Best Dog or best bitch.

A CC is awarded to the best dog and the best bitch at a championship show ... IF they are allocated to the breed for that show ... and IF the judge feels that the best dog and best bitch are of sufficient quality. If not, the judge has the option to just award best of sex cards instead.

So in your example, no the best minor puppy does not win a CC for that award (although the minor puppy could in theory get the CC).

Does that help or is it just more confusing LOL?

M.

At Championship shows all the dog class winners (Minor Puppy, Puppy, Junior, Post Grad etc) compete against each other for the dog CC; then the bitch classes are judged and the winners of those compete against each other for the bitch CC. The winner could come from any class, but it's only awarded at this stage; best minor puppy in breed doesn't automatically get a CC.

Right, I think I am getting there! So to win a C.C. you will need to win Best (Dog or Bitch) in Breed, so a Minor Puppy would go up against a seasoned 6 year old for example.

Yes, that's right. :-)

Bummer, So what's the chance of bribing the Judge

> So what's the chance of bribing the Judge

Why not let your dog win on it's merits...if it is good enough, it will get a CC or more!!!!!!!

I'd never award a CC to a minor puppy as it needs time to develop and may change completely as an adult, it's pretty unusual for puppies to get CC's but not unheard of, you would be looking to seriously compete for them once you have gone up a few classes. 

So much is breed dependent. I have bred several that have won RCCs at age 8-9 months and in the same breed (other dogs not mine) so far 2 have won RCC from puppy this year including at Crufts. My new import took CC & BOB at his second ever championship show this year aged 14 months. And we have only had 4 ticket shows this year so far.

>Right, I think I am getting there! So to win a C.C. you will need to win Best (Dog or Bitch) in Breed, so a Minor Puppy would go up against a seasoned 6 year old for example.

AND any champion including potentially the breed record holder in your breed...
In Boxers last year that meant beating a dog with nearly 80 CC's

It ain't easy!

>Bummer, So what's the chance of bribing the Judge

Lol if you find out let me go! It's pretty unusual for a puppy to get the CC, but they can and do get the Reserve CC, set your sights on Best Puppy in Breed and a RCC for now, then fingers crossed if your dog is good enough than with maturity he might get that magic card.... :-D

>set your sights on Best Puppy in Breed and a RCC for now

If this sounds sniffy it's not meant to, and it's not particularly in reply to Lucy or to SKV, but just generally - to anyone new to showing I'd say set your sights on enjoying your days out and learning more so you can properly evaluate your own dogs and increase your own skill in training, presentation and handling.

There are people in my breed and many others I'm sure who have been showing for years and never got a sniff of a RCC, so I think it's setting false expectations to think that level should be achievable with your first show dog.

Was at the Dalsetter stand at Windsor this weekend, and there was a chap in there buying a VHC placing rosette, obviously thrilled with his place - and that to me is what dog showing is about. Start off thrilled when your dog behaves well, then thrilled with ANY place, then with any win, etc. etc. working your way up the scale. It's obviously not unheard of, but I suspect it's a very rare person who wins at top levels with their first show dog and expecting it is just going to lead to frustration.

I'll shut up now LOL, I probably sound horrible, but that isn't how it's meant.

M.

There are people in my breed and many others I'm sure who have been showing for years and never got a sniff of a RCC, so I think it's setting false expectations to think that level should be achievable with your first show dog.

That is very true indeed. And the more popular the breed, the harder it is to win, of course, as you can have entries of several hundred in the breed. You can get lucky with your first show dog, but it's more likely not to happen -the first dog you learn with. :) I won my first CC 25 years after first showing a dog.

>the first dog you learn with

Yep, that's what I was after!

>I won my first CC 25 years after first showing a dog.

Probably not far off it for me too, and only then because I was extremely lucky to be able to buy in a bitch who did very well for me. Having been unable to breed on from her, it might be many years before I ever see another LOL.

>There are people in my breed and many others I'm sure who have been showing for years and never got a sniff of a RCC,

I got my foundation bitch in 1992, did get her Stud book number from 2nd in Open.

Didn't get my first RCC until 2001, with her granddaughter.

With my original bitch and her daughter I was pleased to place, in larger classes, and ecstatic if I won a class (at the time we did have reasonably filled classes in Post Graduate, well remember being very pleased with a 4th out of 13, under a Scandinavian specialist).

Excellent post Lily Mc ...*thumbs up icon*

In my current breed, I bought in a bitch ( from someone who has never won a green card in 20+ years in the breed) who went on to win a RCC and subsequently be Top brood, curtesy of her champion children.

> Start off thrilled when your dog behaves well, then thrilled with ANY place, then with any win, etc. etc. working your way up the scale. It's obviously not unheard of, but I suspect it's a very rare person who wins at top levels with their first show dog and expecting it is just going to lead to frustration.

Exactly any place was fantastic at open level and then champ level - and if we qualified for Crufts well that was always our aim.

We still remind ourselves that any place is a bonus we could easily be overlooked and we enjoy our day whatever the outcome.  I did hear of someone in my breed saying that only a CC was good enough for them - they have two and were hugely disappointed with anything less.

Enjoy showing its fun any wins/placings are a bonus :)

I did hear of someone in my breed saying that only a CC was good enough for them - they have two and were hugely disappointed with anything less.

It's both exciting and frustrating to chase tickets. The trick is to not allow it to get to you. Sometimes you win, sometimes not -it's not the end of the earth. I have met people who DO consider it the be all and end all, though. Much as the dogs are much loved pets first and foremost, not getting the CC is the end of the earth and enough to make them consider giving up.

I have 3 dogs here on one CC each -two dogs and a bitch. The bitch also has 2 RCCs. I co-own a dog that is on 2 CCs and 1 RCC. I have bred a bitch that is on 2 CCs and 3 RCCs. And I have bred a bitch that is on 2 CCs and EIGHT RCCs -now THAT is sheer frustration LOL. But there is no point in letting it rule your life. It can take years to make a Champion up -and there's usually no big rush either.

I have a young dog who won his first RCC at 9 months, a CC just over a year then I've hardly shown him since.
Popped out once recently and he got the RCC.

I show when I feel like it...it doesn't drive me at all.
I've seen it ruin people in more ways than one.

If this sounds sniffy it's not meant to, and it's not particularly in reply to Lucy or to SKV, but just generally - to anyone new to showing I'd say set your sights on enjoying your days out and learning more so you can properly evaluate your own dogs and increase your own skill in training, presentation and handling.

There are people in my breed and many others I'm sure who have been showing for years and never got a sniff of a RCC, so I think it's setting false expectations to think that level should be achievable with your first show dog.

Was at the Dalsetter stand at Windsor this weekend, and there was a chap in there buying a VHC placing rosette, obviously thrilled with his place - and that to me is what dog showing is about. Start off thrilled when your dog behaves well, then thrilled with ANY place, then with any win, etc. etc. working your way up the scale. It's obviously not unheard of, but I suspect it's a very rare person who wins at top levels with their first show dog and expecting it is just going to lead to frustration.

I'll shut up now LOL, I probably sound horrible, but that isn't how it's meant.

M.

We'd been dog owners for years and years and years before we started showing ....very unsure of what we were doing (although confident about our dogs) - and we thoroughly enjoyed being novices - we said that we were there to "make up the numbers" - and we always took the best dogs home.   We were thrilled with any placings ...and when we took 1st in puppy at Southern Counties with Vinnie, I don't know who was more gobsmacked - and one seasoned exhibitor said "well you're not just making up the numbers now".    I was always disappointed when someone was sulky about their placing and vowed that if we ever thought "we woz robbed" then we would have attended our last show!   Sadly, we stopped showing when our dogs stopped enjoying it!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">there was a chap in there buying a VHC placing rosette, obviously thrilled with his place - and that to me is what dog showing is about. Start off thrilled when your dog behaves well, then thrilled with ANY place, then with any win, etc. etc. working your way up the scale. It's obviously not unheard of, but I suspect it's a very rare person who wins at top levels with their first show dog and expecting it is just going to lead to frustration.<br />

Yep that's me, and I still have lots of milestones to go,

I'm really trying not to think about it and maybe he won't get that third - he's our champion already anyway along with Conns :)

If you don't worry too much about it I bet it will happen. :)

>That is very true indeed. And the more popular the breed, the harder it is to win, of course, as you can have entries of several hundred in the breed. You can get lucky with your first show dog, but it's more likely not to happen -the first dog you learn with. :-) I won my first CC 25 years after first showing a dog.

I was very lucky with my first dog who won the CC and BOB from 250 Cavaliers at Windsor 11 years ago! He also got 2 Firsts at Crufts. Since him, I have struggled to either buy or breed either half as good quality, nobody will sell the good ones of course and if you breed from 'quite good' you're unlikely to get much better. So I've had to set my sights lower and learn to be pleased with just beating 1 or 2 dogs. If anything I am going downwards in quality with each dog haha, my 2nd dog got 6 BOB at open level, but my current show youngster (with the massive exception of a startling Third at Crufts!!) struggles to get better than 2nd or 3rd at open shows. I just enjoy the day out, if my friends do well that's great, and if I get something it's a bonus. :-)

Very good point Lily Mc! I think the big names in the terrier world thought I was nuts when I bought my 3rd place rosette with tears in my eyes of happiness!! :P so I can relate to how that chap felt :D