Not for me!  One of my clients has apparently had the council on the phone on monday, telling her that they've had three complaints from different people about their dog barking all the time and that if they don't stop him, they'll have to get rid of him.

I just want to check if the procedure for a noise complaint is the same for housing association tenants as for private - I know the procedure after getting a complaint myself, but this family are in a slightly different situation being council tenants.  I can't see that the council could just say 'get rid' without any actual evidence - all they've apparently had is the three complaints.  No diaries kept, no noise recordings, not even a letter thus far about it.

Now of course, this could just be someone stirring trouble; they have an inspection coming up on the 1st as this is the first year they've been in the property so we're expecting it to be mentioned then, if it's genuine.

But if it is, can the council really just tell them to rehome him or are they just trying to scare them into doing it?  The dog is doing brilliantly well with the training and I've got some extra stuff in place now to curb the barking but the family are understandably worried, and I want to be able to reassure them, if I can.

We had a noise complaint about a koi pond, we are private tenants but the complaining neighbour is council tenant, we had the pond for 10 years before they complained and the procedure is the same, we in the end HAD to dismantle our pond, sell the equipment and fish even though we own our property.

We had a noise complaint about a koi pond

What on EARTH noise do you get from a koi pond   We have one and the only noise is splashing when we feed them!!!

> What on EARTH noise do you get from a koi pond

The constant sound of running water from a waterfall? Personally, I'd like that.... but I can see it might annoy someone with a bladder problem ;)

I am glad you explained that . I was wondering what noise koi made that was such a problem :)

We had a noise complaint about a koi pond

OMG...are these people for real, complaining abut a fish pond???

I wouldn't mind betting it was a fake call - one of the complainers trying to scare them off!  As you say, they would need evidence...

Have they proof (such as dialling 1471 after the call) that it was really the council on the phone?

A

1.had the council on the phone on monday,

2. telling her that they've had three complaints from different people about their dog barking all the time

3. and that if they don't stop him, they'll have to get rid of him.

Nikita,
The factors of the way the council is said to have dealt with this so far is very unusual.

Local governments usualy act much more formaly than a phone call, especialy after three complaints from 3 different (is that the case??) sources, are there 3 different sources or is it just 1 person making the same complaint??.

Anything which has a legal process potential is almost invariably put in writing, especially in situations where there is a potential where a tenant can be subject to a legal judgement eviction under 'The Rent Act'.
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Nikita
I just want to check if the procedure for a noise complaint is the same for housing association tenants as for private - I know the procedure after getting a complaint myself, but this family are in a slightly different situation being council tenants.

HP
Its exactly the same.

But there is another very important law involved, not just the noise thing, it is what the tenants contract (tenancy agreement contract) with the council is - ARE THEY ALOWED TO KEEP PETS and is it written into the tenancy agreement contract??? - >> most councils dont allow pets and its written into the tenancy agreement contract - it all comes under 'The Law of Contract'.

I dont think your post can be properly answered until the above question is answered.
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Nikita
But if it is, can the council really just tell them to rehome him

HP
To be honest if thats what your client told you the council said then I think your client is being 'economical' with the facts.
On formal situations neither councils or private are ever likely to say any such thing, it would/could legally be argued in court that the landlord had offered the tenant a new, modified, tenacy contract that the tenant cannot stay permamently in the property with the dog but if they try rehome the dog they can stay until they have found it a new home & cannot be evicted until that is done,no time limit!!!

Naa, things dont happen with local government contracts in the ways your client has described -
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I can't see that the council could just say 'get rid' without any actual evidence

HP
They usualy put recording equipment in or near the property for the simple reason if 'eviction' proceedings go ahead they have the 'necessary' evidence which makes a defence impossible.
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Yes, they are allowed to keep pets, all the council tenants round here are unless they've been told otherwise in individual cases.

It's supposed to be three complaints from three different sources.  You've echoed what I thought though, it does sound dodgy!  She's going to discuss it when they have the inspection so that should shed some light on it.

Thanks.

I work for a Housing Association.  Heathspaw has explained the protocol which should be applied before any legal action / tenancy enforcement can take place. If you need further help feel free to message me and I can ask one of our solicitors to advise you.

However i would say having dealt with these sorts of issues on a daily basis it doesn't sound genuine to me. She should also look up the noise enforcement teams details and speak to them as I have never heard of local authorities ringing someone. They always have to visit to witness the alleged noise. Write and serve noise abatement notices etc. this still would not impact on her tenancy unless she was ignoring them and not trying to resolve the issues. She should also check that she has permission to have a dog.(will not be unreasonably withheld) is what the T.agreement usually states.

All the best

In my area the  council first come to your house to talk to you, if you are not in the officer will put a card through your door asking you to phone him/her asap re the complaint. If they continue to receive complaints they will ask the person making the complaint to keep a diary. If that shows a lot of noise then they will put recording equipment in. By the way it is the Environmental. Health that deal with complaints rather than the Housing Dept

However i would say having dealt with these sorts of issues on a daily basis it doesn't sound genuine to me.

That was my first thought, it just does not sound like the way councils go about things.

I am very, very surprised they have have permission to keep pets, theres usually a 'no pet' part of these tenancy agreements (private or council), the councils then turn a deliberate blind eye & ignore people who keep pets, but, if there are any problems then they just apply the law of contract in a straight forward legal process and thats the end of the matter.
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By the way it is the Environmental. Health that deal with complaints rather than the Housing Dept

Yes I know but when there is a barking problem they use the very simple, cheap, straight forward open and shut case proceedure of 'breech of tenancy' agreement, that saves time, money, legal wranglings etc because providing they have evidence the tenant is actualy keeping any kind of pet its a straight forward breech of the contract - no expensive court costs, witnesses & all kinds of wot nots + time, involved, but in this case the client says they have council permission to keep pets (or at least the dog), that could make things quite difficult for the council.

Theres things about this clients statement to Nikita that just dont make sense in the normal way these things work. If any contract is broken then the other party can terminate the contract.
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No, it does sound strange to me.  I don't think it's her making stuff up at all, she is genuinely scared stiff now that she'll have to rehome him - I think someone is being a very unpleasant individual and trying to frighten her and her family.

I will ask her to check her tenancy agreement re. pets but I am sure they are allowed.  There are certainly plenty of council tenants with pets - about 20 cats, rabbits, chickens, ducks and at least 2 dogs just down my road that I know of.

You should bear in mind that local authorities and housing associations have different types of tenancies.  I am not sure what local authorities use but we tend to use Assured shortholds for the first year. If there are no breaches of an ASB nature the tenancy converts to assured.

The difference is with an AST all you need to do to bring the tenancy to an end is serve a section 21 notice.  With an assured tenancy you need to attend a court hearing citing which breaches and what grounds of the housing act the landlord is relying on. The judge makes his decision based on proportionality. Therefore even if she has breached her tenancy her defence should be that it is disproportionate for her to lose her family home.  I was in court this week for a PWITS class A and the even though he had served a custodial sentence the judge still felt it was disproportionate to grant us possession.

Tell her not to panic and stand firm -as the others have said these allegations cannot be taken seriously until they have done their job properly and in the eyes of the law equitably.

You should bear in mind that local authorities and housing associations have different types of tenancies.  I am not sure what local authorities use but we tend to use Assured shortholds for the first year. If there are no breaches of an ASB nature the tenancy converts to assured.

The difference is with an AST all you need to do to bring the tenancy to an end is serve a section 21 notice.  With an assured tenancy you need to attend a court hearing citing which breaches and what grounds of the housing act the landlord is relying on. The judge makes his decision based on proportionality. Therefore even if she has breached her tenancy her defence should be that it is disproportionate for her to lose her family home.  I was in court this week for a PWITS class A and the even though he had served a custodial sentence the judge still felt it was disproportionate to grant us possession.

Tell her not to panic and stand firm -as the others have said these allegations cannot be taken seriously until they have done their job properly and in the eyes of the law equitably.

If you put on your application you have pets they do let you have pets. Housing association are a bit different but know that people have dogs in housing association as well.

They'll have had pets when they moved in - this dog is only a year old, and was bought after they moved in a year ago but had a DDB for 4 years so he'll have come with them.

It seems the landlord was aware that they had dogs when they signed their tenancy; although permission is generally conditional and can be withdrawn. Regarding the noise nuisance team they would normally approach the landlord for noise caused by dogs as well as the owner. This is usually as they could enforce removal or risk security of tenure.  I would advise her as the others have to request evidence of the complaints. I would also ask for their policy and procedure on both investigation and substantiating any allegations in writing if they contact her again.

All the best